I'd like to comment on the problem with the kids loitering and causing trouble. An additional problem is that the police say they can't do anything. They have to catch the kids in the act. But when the kids see them coming, they scatter. And if the police know who it is and they go to that kid's home, the parents respond with, "Oh no, not my son or daughter! They wouldn't do that!" Wake up parents and stop being afraid of your kids. Take charge!
The new roof they are putting up over by my place looks great.The guys are doing a nice job of keeping the area clean along with getting the job done quickly. It is reassuring knowing that there is a new roof up there, leak free. Grounds look good, welcome sign has been changed frequently, speed limit box has moved around the complex. Things are shaping up!
The speed box was a great idea considering that we can't install speed bumps. It has defiantly curbed the speeding issue.
The next thing we have to work on, as jhillary wrote, is the kids loitering in lots and sides of the road. In my area it is not bad, but driving through the complex I see children playing in the parking areas and kids with nothing to do. Other than that the pool has been very refreshing and everything else seems to be quiet.
I've noticed a trend over the past 2-3 weeks. Parking spaces are begining to get out of hand again. I went to park in my lot and there were no spaces available. I looked for stickers in windows, 1/2 didn't have one. Anyone know the name of the towing co. we use? They are not doing their job properly again.
A few years back I remember they power washed the sides of the buildings. I wanted to know if they still do that? I am starting to get an accumulation of green mold by my gutter that is beginning to look very unattractive and growing each time it rains. Help.
This morning I was speaking to my neighbors and they were complaining about the maintenance fees. I own 4 condos in a few separate locations, I rent 2 of the 4. I just want to make a few comments about the additional money we must put out of our pockets each month for condo fees and the importance of long-term preventive maintenance. The "A" word, ASSESSMENT, causes as much financial stress to most condo owners as an audit. Most condo associations lack the self discipline to put sufficient money aside (in the form of reserves) for future repairs and maintenance. Apart from roof repairs or replacement, the exterior of a typical condominium building requires the largest and sometimes the most frequent assessments over the entire life of the structure. In fact, the cost of maintenance and repair of a building's exterior during its useful life is equal to, and in some cases greater than, the original cost of construction. This assumes that all aspects of the building fabric are kept in a reasonable condition for an average period of 35 years. This cost is necessary in order to maintain the value of your property and protect your investment. For example, if you own a condominium, then chances are you own a car. Everyone knows that a car is a lousy investment, but you have to maintain it regularly to keep it in good running condition. And as much as you don't like it, you don't really question the cost of maintenance which, statistics show, can cost as much as two to three times the original purchase price, assuming you bought it new and kept it for approximately five years! Yet you know that all the time it is decreasing in value! A condominium is one of the greatest property investments you can make, if you own one, why wouldn't you want to spend money on maintaining it if you knew that it would increase its value? Well, I'll tell you why. Because many condominium owners just do not believe that: A) Major maintenance and repair are absolutely necessary, and B) If "A" is true, then any money spent on major repairs will result in a good return on their investment. We live in an environment where seasonal elements factor in considering the protection of the exterior of their building. Most people think waterproofing is about stopping leaks. Well, of course it is, but there is much more to it than that. Actually, leaks are fairly easy to detect and can be stopped and prevented from recurring fairly easily and inexpensively. What most owners don't understand, through no fault of their own, is that the primary purpose of waterproofing is to prevent deterioration of the exposed areas of the building fabric, especially the walls, walkways and balconies. These portions of the structure have to be protected from moisture intrusion to provide them with enough longevity to maximize their useful life. Again, using the car analogy, a schedule of regular service intervals will provide your vehicle with a longer useful life. And just like a car, various parts of a building require servicing at varying degrees of intervals. For example, stucco, concrete, brick and timber all require different treatments because they have different physical properties and their life-spans are not the same. It is not just a question of "sealing" or "painting" the building. Unfortunately it is a lot more complicated than that. To an untrained eye, the symptoms of deterioration are not always obvious, or even visible, until the problem reaches a more serious level. The best examples of this are the deterioration of concrete and the rotting of concealed timber, both of which are a sort of hidden cancer. If only buildings could reveal their own pain we wouldn't have to wait until they were really sick and have to resort to surgery!
When you put it like that I can see why we pay the amount we do in fees. If you owned a house not only would you be paying for the material needed for the upkeep but also the labor it takes for the installation.
But
I don’t totally agree with everything you are saying. The 35 year number, does it assume the same owner is living in the same residence for the entire time? For the 35 year time frame, is a specific amount put aside each month for maintenance or just when something happens? If you think about it, a homeowner may not have a problem with their homes for years. Whatever problems happen are because of that resident not the 2000 that live here. If my neighbor destroys something, we all pay for it!
My thoughts on labor
Rather than pay someone to mow the lawn, for 3 months of condo fees, I can own my own sit down mower. Another month or 2 of fees I can buy a snow blower. My point is that 90% of the money we pay into the system goes towards paying for the labor.
Solution would be to contract cheaper companies that outperform the current.
Difficult, no. Labor intensive, yes.
The latter is most likely the reason why we have the issues we do with the landscaping and snow removal company. Now the towing company is even suspect.
The true way to build equity is to adopt a long-term preventive maintenance plan that will provide not only you, but also the current and future owners with peace of mind in the knowledge that there will be no surprises. This alone will be worth it's weight in gold when we have to sell or rent. Lets face it, if the place wasn't maintained as it is up to this point, chop about 30% off the appraisal value of each home. Not to say things are not run well, but it is obvious we can be doing better.
All exterior deterioration is a result of one or more factors, but only one can we do anything about. Poor design, Lack of quality control during construction,the location with regard to weather and climate,the inevitable aging of materials and deferred preventive maintenance. Like they say if is going to happen it will no matter how well we maintain the structures. Fees are just something we have to live with if we want the property manicured the way it has been.
The deterioration is only partly due to weather. The other 3/4 is because of neglegance already discussed in prior posts. Now that the cat is out of the bag, we have to now look to management for an effective solution. No one likes the boat to be rocked like it has been on this forum. Lets put all B.S. aside and call a spade a spade. MANAGEMENT IS NOT DOING AN EFFECTIVE ENOUGH JOB with certain aspects of maintaining our community. Agreeing with the prior post, its not everything, its just some of the larger more obvious day to day functions.
"Poor design, Lack of quality control during construction,the location with regard to weather and climate,the inevitable aging of materials and deferred preventive maintenance." _____________________________________
The word "deferred" is a nice way of saying inadequate or insufficient. FYI, Home owners are conditioned to believe that buildings last for 50 to 100 years or more, by today's standards is just not true. In fact, the newer the condominium, the more likely it is to have problems! Condominiums and townhouses are built to minimal base standards and minimal tolerances. Nearly all condos are speculatively built by developers using the minimum design/build process. All the more reason why maintenance is important to us and money should be monitored more closely and better well spent. Don't patch the problem fix it!
I would like to point out recent posts and the format they are beginning to adopt.
Rather than post anonymously, place the subject of the memo in the name box if you choose not to use an identity (we still encourage signing each post). This procedure will make it easier to comment and distinguish posts from each other.
Question?? What measures are currently in place for dealing with long-term preventive maintenance? Fences destroyed by landscapers are a relatively small problem when you look at the big picture. When you talk structural damage, it’s a whole new ballgame. I have had my roof leak in the past, who knows what damage it caused. By the time I found behind my bedroom furniture it was too late, the damage had already been done. Mold, rot and damaged furniture. The leak caused more damage than it should have and I still can’t believe it wasn’t found sooner. It was no crack, it was a rotted hole. This brings us back to the question of inspection and detail. Even if the roof was inspected, it was never detected.
I have no comment about my condo, just traffic. I commute and its horrible. The construction is making things a mess! It's not just here its the whole area. What else are they planning on doing? The amount of work they are doing seems like a whole lot of trouble for a stinkin lowes!
Where is management? It's been a while since I've been here, I went back a few posts, they are non existent. Pathetic! They were speaking and answering questions here and stopped. Thats part of the problem, residents speak and no one listens. People that don't want to deal with you jackasses have questions that are never answered. If you want cooperation from the management, you are living in the wrong place. Arrogant losers elected to their position because no one else wants it. Don't break a nail doing any more work than you are suppose to! Very, Very un-resourceful, pompous and absolutely the most unorganized bunch I have ever seen! Sad excuse for board members, get off your high horse and do something interactive with the community rather than pick your nose! You guys are all loafs who play the smoke and mirror game, making your jobs seem so difficult. From the results that you all produce, its a wonder how this place even functions. A bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.
You’re absolutely right. The answer is to plan ahead by developing a long-term maintenance plan. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Management can start by expanding on our capital reserve by breaking down the building elements and comparing their remaining lives with their useful lives. If we do not have this information available, then we can hire a consultant who specializes in this field such as an architect or an engineer, or at the very least talk to some contractors. The time taken in getting this kind of valuable advice will save the complex hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run. Just ask some of the associations who have been through enormous assessments and wish they had addressed this issue years ago.
Your outside outlet if for your use. It is not common property. Thus you are responsible for repairs.
Green Mold,
Condo 2 will do power washing next year. I cannot answer for the others. The money being spent on roofs limited us on what we could do this year. The roofs are done so next year should allow us to handle deferred work.
Topic: Management Rant
We are only as good as the available resources, time and money. My follow board members are too busy with jobs and family to do more than attend meetings. So the time resource is limited to my available time. I have a full-time job that demands about 48 hours a week.
It is obvious that the volunteer model no longers works. When condo living was a life-style there was an abundance empty-nesters, retirees and single adults and thus an abundance of free labor. Now that condos are an economic necessity. More and more two worker families are choosing condos as homes. Result, much less free labor.
A solution is coming. At the very least, Condo 2 will have a management company. I believe minds are changing with the HOA. There are too few voluteers to help manage a complex this large. More workers are needed so we will spend money to get this resource.
How to pay for it?
If you think our condo fees are high take a survey. I am betting they are the lowest for the services that are offered. Secondly, if you bought a single home and paid for everything instead of doing it yourself, I will bet you will spend more than what you pay.
Topic: Fences
Now I am ticked off. Everybody ranted and ranted about protecting fences from string trimmers. I spent hours researching and had samples sent by suppliers. A solution was found that I like and it was install at 2819. I asked people to look and post comments. Not a damn thing.
Topic: My Beef
If you think that the solution to our problems is to have 685 owners complain and only 5 owners that do all the work, then you are living in a dream world.
This blog has only has only given me more work. It has not contributed any solutions. It has not made this job any easier. In fact I should be outside inspecting the buildings I did not do last weekend instead of posting. If I had all that time spent complaining.
The reality is you need me and people like me more than I need you.
I am done with this waste of time. Happy complaining. When everybody is ready to truly contribute, let me know.
Thats right there are more families living here with more than one person working. Even more reason why a busy person like me uses this blog. Not griping just venting. I complained about the fence posts and have not had a chance to look at the sleeve yet.
Reading Jeff Jones post was very enlightening. It indirectly stresses the importance of teamwork and what happens when all cylinders are not firing correctly. The key to a successful Blog environment is to have people share in their concerns, ideas and solutions but most importantly help each other succeed and better our quality of life. Obviously we need a degree of teamwork in order to assure that all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
My thoughts:
We ALL Need To Function And Think Of Ourselves More As A Team!
In my career, success has been achieved a number of ways but none of it would have been possible if it had not been for a team effort. I learned that the most important detail for any project, community, forum, or business is to develop a good team. Team is a tricky word. Team is not just about putting few people together and declaring them a union. Team is bunch of individual sharing common goals, visions and working "together" to achieve that goal. Together is an important aspect of a team. Everyone should work with everyone else; it's about rising above the personal differences and work towards the common goal, with COLLECTIVE efforts.
Evident on our blog, there are clear examples of segregation between HOA, Board, and Residents. In my professional experience, the success of a team hinges on how relations are between the team members. A team which shares good relations with each other invariably overcomes all hindrances which can destroy a project before it even begins. I still remember the most proficient team I have worked with, my partner was a very good friend of mine. I discovered contrary to belief that when you are close friends with your teammates, you tend to communicate more freely and more frequently. (This helps greatly as they understand when you can't put in 100% into the project all the time). Needless to say, the end result was us pulling off the project with minimal resources and ahead of schedule. My point…there were hardly any moments when we doubted each other's commitment towards the team.
No matter how you slice and dice it, the word team is all about, working for each other, working with each other and communication. I remember how easy it was to produce, we never had to correspond regarding the importance or the criticality of the project. There was never a lack of efforts from either side. This kind of understanding takes time to build; you don't always have the choice of working with your friends. A true professional is seasoned to work with all kind of teams and overcome any obstacle by rationalizing a solution before its implementation. We all need to be more professional in the way we think!
What to do when you don't get a team that has this kind of team bonding?
I think each and every Community Member, HOA member, Board Member and Blog Member needs to take up the responsibility of building up a team atmosphere where everyone can communicate with each other as a team. Each one of us needs to take the initiative and build relationships and iron out the rough edges amongst each other. Our goal should be to build an environment where it's fun to participate and people respect one other. It's not an easy task and takes a lot of time but it's worth investing. It’s better to spend time building relations with teammates than spending time cursing the lack of team spirit.
As human beings we tend be subjective. We tend to like some people better than others and since we spend a lot of time working we want to work around people we like. You have two choices either you work with people who you like or start liking the people who you work with, later is a challenge worth taking. If we all contribute as a team to the entire effort (HOA, Board, Blog) we can communally work out solutions and hurdle each obstacle, one at a time!
You should be embarrassed in the way you carry yourself. You are a baby! I think it is a slap in the face the way you respond to our answers. You are an arrogant complainer who needs to get a grip on reality!
You complain about your job constantly. It is your duty, no one twisted your arm to become a board member. I have point out things in the past are mishandled due to negligence. I take money out of my pocket each month for maintenance, not destruction. I want what I pay for, $5000.00 a year for you bozos to speak to us the way you do. Very disrespectful.
Words of advice to fellow residents, don’t go to meetings, this is the type of atmosphere you will encounter. Abrasive, thick headed management with them wagging their chins, listening to only themselves.
jones, learn how to deal with people, the way you go about things is wrong. You are a joke!
Satellite dishes are an eyesore and should be ban. These things hang on the fences and look like poop. People with pets, pleas curb your animals. Dogs are not the only problem, cats are also contributing. Cats we cant really do anything about but dogs should be picked up after out of respect for other homeowners.
A pet is a pet. Owners should be required to pick up after them as well. Cats are domesticated animals and as such should not be allowed to roam free to defacate in the flowerbeds, tear bark from the trees and otherwise produce that lovely urine smell after it rains! REAL pet lovers would not allow that.
The last post has it right. The dog curbing isn't a problem by me it is the cats. The smell of cat urin permeates my entire house when the ground is wet. Most of the cats I see are not marked with tags, who knows if someone even owns them, they could be wild. The only humane solution I know of is spray that repels them.
If we did incorporate a management company to run the place it would be the best thing to ever happen to Whispering Hills. The boards that are currently running our complex are volunteers. This is the exactly what we are getting, 2nd rate management! As far as the threat about raising common charges, it's obviously just that, a threat. The amount of money we would save addressing the negligence alone would more than cover the cost ten fold.
One more thing I would like to point out is the piss poor attitude by board member Jones. Reading his comment reinforces the point I'm making. This guy runs for board, complains constantly about his job and how tough it is. It's not just him it's all of them. They all have families and jobs and this complex is very large, we need someone to run this place full time. The way it's going now we can't gain traction. As homeowners we are spinning our wheels and paying more into a flawed system that is beginning to resemble the movie Money Pit! All this money going toward damages, negligence and who knows where is sickening. The protective sleeve that was installed is a good idea. It will save a lot of money on fence repair, again, it’s placing a band aid on a 6 inch cut that requires stitches.
What has changed here over the past 12 years I have lived here? Board attitude negative, grounds deteriorating, lack of involvement on all fronts, destruction, loitering, lack of action, finger pointing, sheer laziness, but the pool looks great.
Peeved off about lot parking. I was under the assumption that we were only issued 2 parking permits per residence. I came home last night, pouring rain, no spot. Whats up with the towing company? They were in here doing their job for the first 2 months we brought them in. They are non existant. This sucks! We are having the same problem with idots that are lazy and don't want to walk from the street.
DO YOUR JOB HOA AND CALL THE TOWTRUCK IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they cant do the job get someone who can. Now I see why people are pissed. Everything here done is half ass!
Same thing here in 3600's. The parking is getting out of hand again. Having guests park in the lot is a slap in the face, it shows no respect for other neighbors.
It's nice to see that things are being attended to. It makes me happy as a resident to know that the staff is listening and paying more attention to detail. I've noticed that the sign has been changed quite frequently and that the loitering has been at a minimum. As far as the fence dressing, I took a look at it and think it will be a great way to prevent damage and should save us a good amount of money in the future.
Anyone know why they stopped working on condo 4 roofing project? I would think they want to finish before winter. Also, are we getting new fences? The current ones are looking pretty bad.
The parking situation has long been a problem in Whispering Hills. It has been for so long that most of us can't remember a time that there was no parking problem. During the summer, the problem has only been exacerbated. It's not uncommon to find cars out there all night without being towed. Even the pavement just past the marked spots can often be found to have an illegally parked car. Quite frankly, I think the situation is ridiculous. Last year, HOA issued new permits, it did nothing to solve the underlying problem. It only shows poor foresight on the part of WH.
It's high time to make the situation right. It's time for serious action to end the parking problem. Now, let it not be said that we the residents are not offering solutions. I offer the following suggestion Spray paint each space with a number. That number gets assigned to that unit. By doing this, it will make residents more responsible and concerned if someone parks in their space. Any additional spots leftover would be general resident parking, permit only. We pay for the lot maintenance, we should be at the very least own the right to a space. Every time I see parking becoming an issue, I wonder why this has never been implemented. It’s a simple solution to a long term problem!
Jim, As a 20-year resident, I can appreciate your frustration with the parking arrangements and agree that the rules need to be enforced consistenty. However, I can tell you that if there was a "simple solution", there would be no current problem. Assignment of spaces was tried in the past--then it became an issue of "entitlement", with those having one car garages laying claim to their right to have 2 spots (if the 2-car garages were getting one spot). In effect, it was thought the 2-car garages were being penalized. Then it was complaints about the location of the spot (if it wasn't directly adjacent to the residence).
The real problem: your "neighbors". You know--the ones that have built illegal rooms in their garages, displacing their cars. And the ones who rotate their vehicles on a daily basis to ensure that ALWAYS have a space 365 days a year. Those cars parked illegally in unmarked spots? That's your neighbor who doesn't want to walk 20 extra steps to his front door. Add all that to the clogging of additional space by commercial vehicles and you've got real problems(especially in mid-Nov).
Unfortunately, when Klar built this place, he was more concerned with packing as many residences ($$)in here as he could--not adequate parking or the safety of the residents. Then, when the Town took the roads over, it was determined that they were not wide enough (fire trucks), hence parking on one side.
The real solution: This is a CONDO--and a densely populated one at that. Residents need to remain completely cognizant of what that means--and treat their neighbors--well, neighborly. Recognize that there are certain concessions one must make when you live in an environment with house rules that prevent your neighbor from parking that derelict vehicle on their front lawn.
We should issue 1 space per unit. The spaces residents would get would be determined by placement of unit.The end units would get the end spaces, middle units, middle spaces etc.,etc. After demographics are considered an annual lottery for the appropriate spaces would occur. Basically ever year, just like parking permits are issued, the lottery would take place. Bottom line your space changes every year assuring everyone gets a fair chance at the front space.
1 space per unit, any additional are free game and designated accordingly in each demographic. Any resident can park in these spaces anytime, permit required as usual. Any opinions about my solution would be appreciated.
All this land you would think they would have built larger parking lots. I would assume they wanted to keep the integrity of the landscape in order. Good suggestion about the parking problem. I would be interested in knowing the parking space to unit ratio. From there we can start making suggestions.
What is wrong with the parents of these kids here?? There have been teenagers seen smoking pot at the parks. Do the parents not care what their children are doing? Or maybe they do not realize that they will be responsible if their little “angels” are caught!! Let’s really start watching for this homeowners!
Is it possible to set up a curfew at our parks to prevent unlawful activities occurring. If so, what can we do to start enforcing such curfews at these parks? We need to do something about vandalism around the complex and illegal activities occurring which mostly happen at night.
This wouldn't be the first time kids have been caught "getting high" in the parks. A few years ago I remember the cops chasing them into the woods. Poof, they were gone. I guess thats the reason why the law isn't enforced the way it should be. The cops stop when they start running.
Does anyone here offer after school care? I have a 4 year old that will be attending preschool this fall and need someone to watch my child. I would prefer if there was other interaction with children within a group enviornment. I would be interested in meeting with whomever can provide these services to discuss further details. We can arrange to privatly exchange information rather than post on the blog.
Whoever kids are throwing rocks down by the park and clubhouse 2 are looking for trouble. Control your little brats. There is a little blond boy and a dark headed kid about 6 years old. Little punks not to mention idiot parents that don't give a crap!!!!!!! The blond kid is an arrogant little ass. Cursing and disrespectful. I'm in an uproar and extremely offended by these little bast@#ds attitudes!!
I think a block sale would be a great idea for the community this fall. We can rent tables and hold the sale in both whispering hills parking lots. During the event, refreshments and food can be sold. Maybe even incorporate a few activities or raffles into the mix.
I'm pointing a finger at a homeowner in whispering hills.
A resident pulled up over by the recycle bins and dumped off a burgundy color couch this past weekend. I couldn't believe it! The gentleman was driving a white ford explorer. He threw our some other junk with it.
I'd like to respond to the August postings about hiring a Third Party Property Management Company. I think it is necessary to look into this. I agree that the volunteer staffed Board is grossly inadequate when it comes to managing a property the size of WH.
In addition to ongoing maintenance of the property (which is uneven at best), they could also be engaged to keep the Board in check by ensuring that both open and closed board only meetings are held at the intervals required by the by-laws as well as budgets being available for viewing and distribution of financials (which from what I can ascertain is not done).
The manner in which this property is managed should be a priority as it effects quality of life and the value of our investments.
How can this be arranged? Who would review the candidates firms for the position?
A GOOD RESIDENT WOULD HAVE TOLD THE PERSON HE IS VOILATING THE RULES AND WRITTEN DOWN HIS LICENSE PLATE NUMBER AND REPORTED HIM.
MAINTANANCE DEPARTMENT HERE SHOULD ALL BE FIRED. IF THEY DID SOME WORK IT WOULD BE GREAT. JUST GO UP TO CLUB HOUSE 2 IN THE MORNING THE START AT 8AM AND GO TO WORK AT 9AM THEN TAKE A BREAK AT 10AM GO TO LUNCH AT 12 NOON AND TAKE A BREAK AT 2PM AND ARE SITTING DOWN IN THE MAINTANACE AREA AT 3PM WAITING TO 4PM TO GO HOME. WE SHOULD ALL RETIRE AND GET A JOB WORKING FOR THE MAINTANCE DEPARTMENT AT WHISPERING HILLS.
What does it matter if you go up to the offender or not, everything down there is on camera anyway. Trust me, they will be fined. You did the right thing by not confronting the resident. Next thing you know you are fist fighting, ore even worse.
Did not know there was cameras in Whispring Hills. How about BiG Brohter. Un marked police are here too. Why don't they work with Wishering Hills to help us! Stop them and report them. Need comunity help. NO
The whole conflict with hiring a property manager is the cost effectiveness & productivity issue. Any residential or commercial property must be taken care of from both a physical and a tenant-relations standpoint, and that is what a property manager does. He maintains and upgrades facilities while acting as liaison between the owner of the property and tenants. In many cases, the property manager has the responsibility for attracting tenants to the property as well. Since most property managers are in charge of a number of properties at any time, the job can involve frantic work, unusual hours, and extremely difficult schedule coordination. With this in mind, does it really pay to incorporate a management system? In my opinion, it wouldn't make a difference either way. As the old adage goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!
Its a very nice property and very well kept. parking is not too bad i've seen a lot worse. not much crime but i've heard a couple of incidence lately. they should really consider something else for safety patrol. it can get a little noisy at times but most of the time its very quiet.the hoa staff is very nice and generous. Maintenance is good. there is one drawback, work orders, they take forever to fill.
overall this is a great property. the best i've seen. i would defiantly recommend this property to anyone looking for a quiet, well behaved residents, and kept up units.
I agree, this is a great place to live. Aside of a few problems you would encounter in any community. If the only issues are with the landscapers, parking, and a few other things that seem to be in the process of being addressed , we are doing better than 90% of other complexes that are run by evil management companies. I have been told nightmares about how some of these places are run. Considering the size and the amount of people that live here. I think they are pretty organized and accommodate us as much as possible. All that said, I am proud to call this place my home!
Maintenance is the issue at hand, not "tenant" relations. Common area maintenance is not being performed to any level of satisfaction, especially if you use any of the comments on this site as a barometer.
I don't know why you would view the matter as a "conflict". Hiring a property manager would be based on a contract of specific needs for the property. Cost effectiveness & productivity would be matters that are addressed BEFORE the contract is awarded and put into effect.
I agree that "Any residential or commercial property must be taken care of from both a physical and a tenant-relations standpoint, and that is what a property manager does." But most important to remember is that they are a hired contractor and would be subject to specific direction, presumably by the Board. Maintaining and upgrading facilities, as practical is ideal as would be some type of long range maintenance plan and related budget. Neither of these seems to be currently in effect, and if it is, it must be a big secret to the residents.
I do not agree that an integral job function would be to act as liaison between the owner of the property and tenants, since this is a condo complex and that clearly does not apply, and either does attracting tenants to the property. This is a condo complex -owners are responsible for marketing and selling their own units. A Property Manager would have absolutely no involvement in this process.
As for workload, we would be able to specify that this person is not in charge of a number of properties at any time, only ours. Given the size and overall scope of properly maintaining the complex, it would be impossible for anyone to manage the complex on a part time basis.
If you perceive that property management can involve frantic work, unusual hours, and extremely difficult schedule coordination, then you either have a poor reference point or know a property manager who is in the wrong line of work. I agree, and know first hand that Property Management is not a 9-5 job. Broken pipes, leaky roofs and other disasters do not occur during normal business hours, which brings us back to the point that the current set up cannot manage the property in an effective manner.
"With this in mind, does it really pay to incorporate a management system? In my opinion, it wouldn't make a difference either way. As the old adage goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!" This couldn't be further from the truth. The system isn't broken, it's DOA. There is a Board Member who never misses a week to install some "inspirational message" on the entrance marquee instead of doing something productive like perhaps a property inspection. We have decaying parking lots, graffitti that goes unaddressed, landscapers who seem to work (and I assume get paid) without any degree of accountability. Dealing with these types of issues are all major components of what a Property Manager does, and what currently is not being done.
In addition to the above, a Property Manager would be able to ensure that the Board acts in accordance with the By-Laws and rules established for the organization. Minutes would be kept and distributed as would be meeting notices, agendas and oh yes- the ever elusive financials and budgets that most residents here never seem to be able to view.
In closing, I would also like to add that to split up the Condos into different entities and allow them to manage themselves would undermine the ability to acquire a Class A Property Manager by using a complex the size of WH as an enticement.
People, Don't let them fool you, the amount of money we would save using a management company would more than cover the cost of their services. This place is grossly neglected!! Quite frankly, I think Whispering Hills board is a joke. It's been mentioned before here, someone is getting rich. Don't waste your time trying to ask them questions, they answer with the same canned response and comnplain about how tough their job is.
I have been following this blog since April. Judging by what I have seen here, the system is significantly flawed with one of the weakest infrastructures I have ever seen a business posses.
Another thing, JEFF JONES IS AN IDIOT! Asking this guy questions is like pulling teeth. If your lucky and get a response from the guy, he complains. DO NOT ASK HIM QUESTIONS ANYMORE, HE IS A LOSER!He is an arrogant ass which is directly reflective of the type of attitude you get all around here.
Great post kelly, all I can say is ditto!!!!!! What really concerns me is the budget. Where does all the money go? They bring in fees in excess of 185k a month, something is defiantly wrong. I've been saying it from the beginning. I genuinely feel someone is dipping their hand into the cookie jar! All we do is turn a blind eye and pay the damn fees without asking questions where the money is going!
I agree the Board system is flawed, but there is a lack of guidance and a lack of a neutral presence which I think would be both a help and a comfort to those who feel the system is "corrupted".
One of the biggest problems, is that the Board is volunteer driven and that level of involvement will effect the amount of time that is spent taking care of business.
The fact that budget publication and disclosure in addition to distribution of independently audited annual financial statement is something that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Not having access to this information is of great concern to many residents, and we have an absolute right to this information being unit owners. I have been here just about a year snd have yet to see hide nor hair of any financial statement.
I think that the credibility of this blog site is impaired by the amount of bashing that goes on. Smart board members would be best served to at least read through the comments and concerns and use them as a springboard to mend fences (no pun intended) in an obviously fractured relationship by targeting the major issues and make some visible strides in correcting deficiencies of greatest concern.
If all we do is tear others to pieces, we loose our ability to be viewed as giving constructive criticism. If that happens then this becomes nothing more than a site where disgruntled residents rant and rave and are never going to be satisfied.
I just want to address something. Kelly said, "I think that the credibility of this blog site is impaired by the amount of bashing that goes on. Smart board members would be best served to at least read through the comments and concerns and use them as a springboard to mend fences (no pun intended) in an obviously fractured relationship by targeting the major issues and make some visible strides in correcting deficiencies of greatest concern.
If all we do is tear others to pieces, we loose our ability to be viewed as giving constructive criticism. If that happens then this becomes nothing more than a site where disgruntled residents rant and rave and are never going to be satisfied."
If you have been following the blog, the reason why there are disgruntled residents is because nothing is being done here! As far as complaints, if they were addressed rather than shruged off, I think the atmosphere would be greatly different. Reading every post, you will realize why things are the way they are because the board wants it that way. They are critisized for lack of leadership and action. It's a shame all we are getting is the short end of the stick and no answers. Look at the whole fence thing that occured, since there was no followup, the plug on the project was pulled. The feeling i got was that the board member who initially acted on the suggestion, broak his own hand patting himself on his back. Disgusting!!!!!!! It's to better the community and save us money and all this guy does is complain!
NOTHING IS BEING DONE HERE AND WE AS RESIDENTS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF IGNORANCE! Anyone that makes a suggestion, its not taken seriously because they want you to attend a meeting (we know how that goes). There have been some extraordinary suggestion and solutions brought up and people willing to volunteer, its board members obligation to harness the suggestions and address concerns of all residents.If they can't, get off the board!! It is what it is, we have to make the best of the situation.Let's move forward and work together in a productive manner rather than hinder the process by making negative comments. I for one, think this blog is an incredible resource to voice my opinion, concerns, and suggestions. I will continue to do so along with many others!
As far as the budget and number crunching, it's been brought up before to Mr Jones and never addressed. As a matter of fact, there has also been talk of corruption.
There will always be financial uncertainty until this matter is addressed.
My opinion there should be a probe into where the money is spent, not being educated with financial info is leaving us open to a corrupt system. My interpretation, condo board presidents, WH complex brass, a contractor and a forth person could be purposely inflating bids to a board, get them approved, then would have the contractor kick back some of the money. One of may examples of what could be happening here. This could include maintenance, snow removal, landscaping, etc. Basically anything we are paying for with our maintenance fees.
I'm curious and concerned, they should crack open the books and visually show residents where the cash is going. I would love to see the explanation of the state's condo laws because I smell something fishy here.
This is a must read for anyone worried about corruption. Trust me, it happens more often than you think in condo land!
http://www.ccfj.net/condograndvistastop.html
It scares the hell out of me how easy it would be to steal, especially in a large place like this. How many residents here really know where the cash is going? My bet, a fraction.
I did read all the postings. Complaining is one thing. Calling people names is another. That is my point. I understand the frustrations, and believe me, I do not work as hard as I do to line somone else's pockets. And I do not contribute to this blog merely to spin my wheels.
Payoffs and kickbacks are unfortunately almost part of the system in real estate and only those with integrity and a true desire to rise above that type of scenario will be able to work without partaking. I think part of the problem also is people looking to take the easy way out (by using the same contractors over and over).
I agree that this site is an incredible resourse. There is a comfort to know that we are not alone in our concerns. Perhaps it can be a springboard for real action instead of a site where people complain and expect someone else to do the dirty work.
I think we should all look into a few things. One item specifically would be to identify exactly where the Board is in violation of procedure and see what action can be taken against the Board.
Board Members are not exempt from legal action if there is true corruption.
How many people on this site would be willing to really act and get involved if the Board were to be called to the carpet? How involved would you be willing to be and to commit to, if it meant a significant change?
By-laws can be re-written (term limits?), Oversite committes (so to speak) and such could be imposed - but it takes people wanting to be involved.
I have been away for a bit...needed to take a break from this anarchy !
I still stand behing my belief:
Wouls you allow someone with NO EXPERIENCE in restaurant managemenr run you restaurant? Would you allow someone who wasn't a certified marriage counselor council you? Would you let a supermarket produce manager do a prostate exam on you? WELL THEN WHY ARE WE ALLOWING COMMON CITIZENS RUN OUR, OUR, OUR MILLION DOLLAR ORGANIZATION CALLED WHISPERING HILLS LLC ?
The amount of money saved and peace of mind we ALL would get from a certified condo management company is priceless.
Think about it....you letting a garbage man teach your daughters 7th grade math class....not me.
The biggest issue with hiring a management company is cost effectiveness. The bottom line, is hiring a management company going to be financially beneficial or is our common charges going to go thorough the roof? We already know the place will be better managed with a professional company. I just don't want the increase in common charges.
Allowing the residents to run this place has worked up to this point. I don't agree with the way things are run and by doing business in this manner is totally opening us up to things I'd rather not go into for fear of offending someone (we have to watch what we say, we have some sensitive people here. As mentioned in a prior posts, we know we live in a large complex. With the amount of residents and the amount of money thrown into the system, it is inconceivable that we are not able to get a breakdown of EXACTLY where each dime is going.(Each month we blindly pay the "man" his fee, not asking a single question about it)
Anyone seen the books lately...."no"....ever?
Attention! A motion to request that we the residents launch a private audit on our behalf against Whispering Hills. It would help if we had a few residents that are proficient in law and accounting lend a hand to the probe.
I want them to crack their books open and prove my suspicions wrong.
Actually, we can expect to see where every dime is spent. I work for a Real Estate company. The individual properties we manage are all owned by separate LLCs and each year, we are independently audited to verify how the money is being spent. That is how it is done. it's called ACCOUNTABILITY. And, the financial statements are DISTRIBUTED (imagine that!!).
I second the motion for an independent audit. I live in Condo III and we were just sent notices about a $20 increase set to start this January, due to "needed paving repairs". Why was this not budgeted? Are we to assume that 3 bids were received and reviewed and the party awarded the job is the lowest (or more important, competent and not related to anyone on the Board?).
These are the types of concerns we have at present and would hopefully be eliminated by a third party management company. At the very least we would be able to see the documentation behind these projects, and not have this cloud of suspicion hanging over every dollar spent.
As for fees paid to the Management Company, the company I work for collects a percentage of the income collected each month (common charges). Additional fees are paid to manage larger projects at the properties (5% fee for projects in excess of $50,000.00). Aside from the professional knowledge, we would also benefit from an experienced company versed in dealing with common problems that are faced in the day to day operations of a complex the size of WH.
There is too much at stake with the amount of revenue collected at this property. There is no place in business for worrying about people's feelings being hurt. No offence, but if somone is dipping their hand in the till, I could really give a damn about hurting their feelings. I work too hard for my money (as I am sure we all can agree), and I resent anyone getting a free ride.
Some HOAs are required to have a "review" done each financial year. Some documents require an audit.
Some qiestions we can ask the board pertaining to the audit (a review is a lower standard than an audit. We want an AUDIT):
Question: If I as a Board member or the Board as a whole would like to have an audit done instead of the standard year end financial review, how would we actually go about this?
Question: Do we simply ask the board to request the CPA to expand the review to an audit?
Question: Do we ask the CPA ourselves and not go through the Manager?
I think that an audit is in order, given the time that has elapsed since anyone has seen financials. After the audit is conducted and a financial report of the findings has been issued, we can then discuss the annual review process and also decide on the frequency of audits going forward.
I think an independent third party would be best to perform this audit. There are plenty of companies we can interview for the audit, which I assume the fee would be based on the depth and deatil we are looking for in this audit. It would be the safest, and most objective way to bring the information we all seek out into the open.
We should consult the by-laws to determine if there is a procedure to follow.
You think you guys have it bad, I live in condo IV. My fees are $310.00 a month because of a roofing project that we never accounted for in our budget. Good job guys, nice planning. Who's job is it to secure funds as they are being paid to hoa for projects like this? The additional $ assessed is killing me month to month.
Another question? Do they keep minuets for each meeting? By law I think they have to.
I know what you mean- $20 here, $20 there - it all adds up. Isn't the roof work supposed to be an assessment, not a permanent increase? The roof work was done in my section just before we purchased and I was told that the assessment ($35 I think) was just lifed an month or two prior.
David is correct- proper management should be cost effective and we should be looking at maintaining present fees, if not a reduction.
If we are audited and have a competent accounting process in place, we should be looking at depreciation schedules for the common area and ways to decrease our proportionate share of the property taxes.
Common areas insurance coverage should be aggressively and competively bid as well as projects.
A Property Management firm would also be able to put together a proper budget that accounts for capital projects and the cost to execute them. Being pro-active and properly forecasting expenditures should minimize, if not eliminate unplanned increases to the residents.
I believe that not only are minutes supposed to be recorded, we should be able to review them when we want to.
I need to read the by-laws (as we all should). Knowledge is power.
Someone is going to have to organize a letter to the board to request an internal private audit. The questions above are a great place to start. Just sending a letter is futile. HOA will choose to ignore the letter unless someone presents it to the board in their meeting format. (Funny how I've sent letters in the past directly to the HOA to hear nothing after). My feeling, they throw it aside because no one is watching. If it presented to the board "in front of the community" they will have to take it seriously.
Who will organize the letter & who will present it?
Any lawyers or accountants that can give input, please don't hesitate.
I believe these are the condo laws for NY state. Someone more educated in reading this lingo might want to skim the document and give an opinion. The link is
I think we first need to read the by-laws and site chapter and verse where we can call out the Board's failure to comply with their own rules and our right to view the financial information.
An open community meeting is one way to confront the Board, but I do believe that the New York Secretary of State is the governing entity in cases such as these so perhaps a certified letter, ccing the NY Secretary of State or at the very least, advising the Board that if they fail to respond, we will bring the matter to the S of S.
FYI They will not like you examining financial, it's a proven fact. Jeff Jones lost his mind last time this was brought to the communities attention. To his discredit, a defensive approach was taken rather than an explanation. All that needs to be produced are the facts.
As Kelly mentioned, this is a great start. We need answers, not excuses or posturing.
He can loose whatever he wants, the more defensive he (or the rest of them) gets, the more determined we need to be and the further we will want to dig.
This is an extremely serious issue. We need to stick together and see this through to the end. If you read the article from the link posted on September 27 about Grand Vista complex, you will see how an unchecked situation can grow completely out of control and jeopardize everyone in the complex's investments.
As an ex-banker this is what I know. Do not confuse financial statements with audit statements. It should not take legal council for them to open their books. By law, they must file a consolidated financial statement that is on file for the public to view. On this statement there are bottom line numbers, nothing specific. What an audit will do is provide additional information where we can pinpoint spending and really see in black and white what we are up against. A prospectus of financial events would be absolutely ideal.
We do receive the financial statement every year via mail. What we need is detailed specifics as I mentioned above.
I have been here a year and have yet to see any type of financial statement. Other residents claim non-receipt as well, in addition to hitting a brick wall when making direct inquiries.
There are serious allegations of financial impropriety such as certain individuals receiving salaries and other money changing hands. Using a modest monthly maintenance fee ($240) as a reference point, it is estimated that almost 2 million dollars a year in common charges are collected. Using actual numbers (I am not aware of the fees the various Condo's pay and how many units are attributed to each grouping), but I will assume that amount is probably closer to 2.5 million per annum.
When was the last audit? Anyone can issue a financial statement but without back up documentation it's just a meaningless spreadsheet. If it's not certified by anyone, as far as I am concerned it's just meaningless propoganda being distributed by the same people dipping into the cookie jar.
There seems to be a great deal of concern regarding this issue and I think it warrants further investigation. If an audit is what it takes to either quell the concerns or bring improprieties to light, then so be it.
Did a little reading of the By-Laws last night and came across something interesting.
I live in Condo III, and we were just sent notices advising of a $20 increase beginning January, 2008- presumably for paving costs to the driveways. I do not doubt that the driveways are in serious need of repair, but why there is an increase being imposed when it should have been a budgeted maintenance item (the driveways did not deteriorate over night), I cannot tell you why this was not addressed before now.
I can however point out that pursuant to the By-Laws, section 5"Powers", paragraph 12, it states that the Board has the power:
"To make additions, alterations, or improvements to the common elements if the Community, the cost of which addition, alteration, or improvement does not exceed $5,000.00. The Board of Managers may make additions, alterations or improvements to the common elements costing in excess of $5,000.00 only with the approval of a majority of the Home Owners."
Intersting. Last time I checked, I was a Home Owner. And the last time I checked, I never received a single letter, notice or any other form of communication from the Condo III Board of Managers of their intent to perform this paving work (assuming that the need to increase my commons charges indicates the required work will ion fact cost more than $5,000.00), nor did I receive any type of voting slip or proxy form.
My interpretation is that the work is unauthorized, as is the increase. I intend to send notificationto the Board of Managers of this matter. The long and short of it is, per the By-Laws, they have no right to raise my monthly payments.
Assuming that all the Condo's are subject to the same rules and regs, you may wish to look into the validity of recent increases and assessments and the procedures that were followed that allowed them to raise your maintenance fees.
Am I interpreting this right? Any maintenance that needs to be done with costs exceeding $5000.00 must approved by the residents as well as the board? According to the cited document, I would assume the regulations would be intact for all condos in NY state.
So where are we at here? Are we going to talk about doing something or take action? This is preposterous. It is inconceivable that we don't save money for repairs and that my budget is tighter than ever because of it. Hi' by the way I also live in condo4. I did not sign up for a 40% increase in fees this year because of some damn roof!!!! Thank You! This is killing me. What am I paying for? I'm sick reading this. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how I deciphered it. It doesn't appear that the Board has oversight over the individual Condo Boards. A quorum of 51% is required in order to hold a voting meeting for the Condo in order to approve such work. That also holds for service contracts.
Granted, from a maintenance standpoint, it can be a nuisance to have to go to such lengths for every item over $5K, but it is what it is.
Condo IV - we are trying, but facts and specific instances of oversight are where we will be able to do something. Are you talking abgout increases, or assessments (an assessment is temporary, an increase is usually not). We all share your frustration - we work hard for our money and want only the best for WH, but not at the cost of overpaying for services or compensating and rewarding Board Members for their service.
Please look at your By-Laws for Condo IV (and 1 and II if anyone out there is reading this) and determine if protocol has been followed. If we start at the Condo Level, hopefully sh*t will roll uphill (pardon the expression) and we may be able to nip this cancer at the root.
The conflict of interest is at best questionable with both Collins (married) on the board. Another, Jeff Jones both vice pres & pres of condo II. What are the laws here, if any at all? Inconsistencies? I would like to know more.
I am ready to copy this page & send it to all these people letting them know that we are very concerned and ignorant to their way of doing business. It is unfortunate it has to be them and us but again, this is business, not friendship. This place grosses millions a year, again I want to reiterate, it is a business, people get paid. How & what they get paid or compensated remain to be seen! I'm thinking as an educated human, how easy would it be to abuse the system, especially with the length of leash we extend to them. As the old adage goes, maybe we gave them just enough to hang themselves.
If I were a member of the board or someone who has a common interest with Whispering Hills, be very cautious. I don't think this topic is going away until answers are produced.
HOA By-Laws: Article IX, section 1 "Elective Officers": Two of more offices may not be held by the same person.
Condo III By-Laws (I do not have a copy of Condo II's By-Laws) However:
Article III Board of Managers - Section 7: Managers and officers, as such, shall receive no compensation for their service.
Article IV: Section 1 - Elective Officers Two of more offices may not be held by the same person.
I am having a problem locating anything that prohibits 2 offices being held by joint home owners of the same unit.
I think we need to all meet in person and come up with a game plan. We can form our own committes and each group can plan their strategy based on the issue they wish to challenge.
If we act as a group, each with a seperate puropse, they can't ignore all of us.
We need more people to see what is being discussed here! The question is how do we reach every resident and inform them of the situation we are dealing with? I saw the initial flyer for this blog in the store and haven't seen them in a while.
To blog boss, If you can set up more flyers to inform more residents of the site. Also, can we use this blog to start a petition or something?
Word of mouth about the matter will also conjure up curiosity. I'm sure if you tell your neighbor that the residents want to audit finances and make sure procedure is being followed correctly, they wouldn't be opposed.
I think the meeting idea is a good one. We should arrange it before the next big board meeting, we can use their facility as a meeting place. Only thing is that we would have to clear it with them first.
Actually, it's OUR facility. We just need to reserve it, I suppose. Aren't the clubhouses for our use?
What would be best? At night during the week or on a weekend? I won't be available on a Saturday until 10/27, during the week, about 7PM is a possibility. Just need some dates that people will be willing to meet.
We can document our issues to address, break them down and decide how to proceed.
The conflict of interest is at best questionable with both Collins (married) on the board. Another, Jeff Jones both vice pres & pres of condo II. What are the laws here, if any at all? Inconsistencies? I would like to know more.
And we have a resident "COLLECTING" on work he does in his "OWN" community. I would be VERY interested in seeing the "OTHER TWO" bids on "EVERY" job he has performed.
Wait a minute, did someone just whisper "CORRUPTION" in my left ear?
Can we please get some sort of interest pool over the next few days before we go any further with the audit plan? Anyone interested, indicate so with a simple yes. We will figure out the details as we go along. Lets see where we stand next Monday morning after others who read this digest what is being proposed.
I also emailed the blog on the posting of additional flyers. They said they were already on it, they will be up by the weekend.
Good work on getting the flyers going, Mr. C. Hopefully we should get a few more people interested in challenging the system and contributing to our efforts.
We need to meet in person before anything is done to see how many people actually care enough to show up for a physical meeting.
From what I have heard, efforts in the past to group together for various reasons have fallen short because some people are all talk and would prefer to not get personally involved beyond spewing rhetoric.
I am in, schedule permitting. Name a time and place (one of the clubhouses should be fine).
I STRONGLY suggest that anyone reading this blog-site, especially if you wish to attend a meeting and get involved reads the By-Laws for both your particular condo as well as the HOA. Boring as hell, but if we are going to make demands, and more important, allegations of impropeiety, we need to be on point and know what we're talking about.
We all have rights here, we are all owners. The Board is not in an ivory tower (although it appears that they act to the contrary). They are supposed to have all the owners best interests in mind as well as the financial and physical health of the complex.
When indicating if you are willing to be involved, please specify which Condo you live in so we can try to get someone from each. Remember, there are 2 layers to these issues - there are Condo Boards and HOA Board.
Like I said, I am in (I live in Condo III)- just say when and where.
What are you people expecting to find? I find it offensive anyone would even suggest dishonesty. I'm a homeowner who has been paying into the system for 15 years, I refuse to believe this is happening. Give me a break people!
I suppose ignorance is bliss. Offended? Why are you offended? Are you on the Board?
The lack of financial disclosure is a major problem and the ignored requests for the information is a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that there are members of the board holding down more than one office is a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that a member of the Board collects ANY type of fee is an impropriety and a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that the Board cannot authorize any work over $5,000.00 without a quorum of the homeowners is a violation of the By-Laws. I resent that a proposed $20 month increase in my commons charge is based on unapproved work.
Need I go on?
If all you have to offer is discouragement and negative comments, then please maintain your silence. Complacency has allowed this situation to escalate to the this point.
[quote]What are you people expecting to find? I find it offensive anyone would even suggest dishonesty. I'm a homeowner who has been paying into the system for 15 years, I refuse to believe this is happening. Give me a break people![/quote]
If they never looked.... Nixon would have run his course for a full 8 years. It's our right to look.
Everyone has the right to express what is on their mind(s). I do believe it carries more weight if you aren't afraid to say who you are....that I will never understand. Why would someone be hesitant to post who you are?
I for one are proud of my opinions and do not fear having one.
We're (pretty much) all adults.
Anyway...bottom line if it wasn't for anonymous posts we... Kelly, Jeff, and I would be talking to ourselves.
As more people get comfortable...they will come out of the woodwork.
Remember folks....we are trying to good here. We are trying to change a system that is fighting to be changed....fighting to be changed for (what we think) is a reason.
Come on people! This site is riddled with complaints and accusations against the Board, and frustrations with how things are run, but when a meeting to put our heads together is suggested, suddenly, no one is out there.
So far, we have 3 people who have agreed to meet (myself, Dave and Mr. Cerebral - whoever that is), representing Condos 2,3 and 4. 3 people? Out of 670 units? We can't be the only disgruntled home owners in the complex.
We are all unit owners here and we have a right to the information we seek, and an explanation to the motives behind the Board's actions. They cannot retalliate against us, nor can anything we say or do be held against us.
Aside from the issues that have come to light on this site, our meeting, unlike the Board meetings, will be an opportunity for everyone to voice their opinion and have an opportunity to meet with other neightbors who share the same concerns and want something done about it or at the very least, receive a respectable, coherent and intellegent response from the Board regarding our concerns. If you plan to attend to defend the Board, then perhaps this may not be a meeting for you. We will be looking to strategize, not to fight another layer of Board BS. Being ignored or treated like second class residents will no longer be an option.
I know we're all very frustrated - to different degrees - but we really should try to be constructive, not destructive. We cannot allow ourselves to become a tool of the establishment we are looking to fight by fighting amongst ourselves. That would basically be doing their work for them.
"Come on people! This site is riddled with complaints and accusations against the Board, and frustrations with how things are run, but when a meeting to put our heads together is suggested, suddenly, no one is out there."
I'll tell you why people complain and don't take action. My personal opinion, it's a waste of time. The audit you guys want to do will take more than the 3 people interested. If you walked in there requesting to see books, you will be laughed out of the building. A group of 15-20 people need to organize and force the issue. The more people that get involved, the more likely someone will listen. Why are people all talk and no action? Speaking for myself, I work nights, I'm very busy. A solid plan needs to be outlined specifying the details to make it that much easier for everyone to get involved. From past experience, if its not laid out a-z , there will be lack of enthusiasm. Sad to day, probability the reason why we are in the predicament we are in.
Giving up my identity to the board, my name is Steve, aka Mr Cerebral. How do you want to go about doing this. I think you have a great idea with private meetings. Lets follow jims advice and formulate a plan that can be presented to the residents. Organization will be the key to education. The more residents that are educated, the louder our voice will be.
I know where you are coming from, and agree this is time consuming. People can still contribute their efforts, even if they can't attend a meeting- perhaps a neighbor you know can attend and inform you of what happens.
As for being laughed out of the building, they can't do that (doens't meant that they won't) but they have to disclose, and if they don't, legal remedies can and will be pursued.
The Condo board is subject to the laws of NY State, and if it takes getting the state involved, so be it.
I for one work hard for my money and will not have selfish, unethical, unprofessional, inexperienced people piss it away by mismanaging my investment.
You are 100% correct in the fact that we are where we are because no one wants to take the initiative. Well I am here and I am willing and I have just enough knowledge about how a system like this is supposed to work to be a royal pain in the ass to the current enept Board.
I'm sure if a something was sent around to each resident explaining that we are interested in going the audit rout, more people would be inclined to do something. There are a fraction of residents that know this board exists. Just a small % compared to the 1000's that live here. We need to inform our neighbors by word of mouth this is happening, it is the most powerful advertisement. We are talking millions of dollars guys, we can't just let this be another one that slips through the cracks. It's lack of information and support that are killing the ideas here. I've seen some good and some bad, nothing materializes because of the small group of people this blog reaches. Short of sending around flyer's (like HOA)which would reach every resident, the next best thing would be vocal transmission of these ideas in conjunction with the blog.
Agreed. I think that should be the first thing we do (even if it only the 3 of us) is to start putting pen to paper and list the issues (backed up by snippets from the By-Laws that are being violated) and put together a flyer that we could hand deliver, and try to garner some interest that way.
gym reminds me of something I suggested a decade ago . . . why not have a board member visit new home owners when they arrive, as a form of orientation? Provide the new home owner with the House Rules, additional info about recycling, parking, etc. and some encouragement to abide by the Condo regulations. Maybe add some coupons for local merchants and a few little inexpensive "trinkets". Or, schedule a new homeowner info session once a month for the new arrivals?
Initially, board members thought it a good idea . . . but unfortunately, my suggestion was coincidental with the siding/roofing project in Condo 1. All the focus went there. At the same meeting, I presented a bag of 250 roofing nails that had not been cleaned up from the driveway--and complained about a "near miss" (falling debris). The Board told me emphatically, that we should know we were living in a "construction zone" and I (!) should be more careful. With no support from the "peanut gallery", I left the nails and went home--the last meeting I ever attended.
I wrote a letter with photos and bills attached to the HOA in regard to the 8 flat tires me, the wife and daughter got while they were doing my roof. My neighbors dog got a nail in her paw. They did nothing, never responded, and ignored the situation. Not to mention that the ceiling in my neighbors house never leaked before the "NEW" roof and now it pours out of the light socket. They haven't responded yet and we are going on 6 weeks.
Similar thing with water happened to me a few years back, it wound up being a hole in my roof. To add insult to injury, it was leaking in from the gutter area too. You should push the issue like I did. Before you know it, weeks later you have a walls full of mold.
118 comments:
I'd like to comment on the problem with the kids loitering and causing trouble. An additional problem is that the police say they can't do anything. They have to catch the kids in the act. But when the kids see them coming, they scatter.
And if the police know who it is and they go to that kid's home, the parents respond with, "Oh no, not my son or daughter! They wouldn't do that!" Wake up parents and stop being afraid of your kids. Take charge!
The new roof they are putting up over by my place looks great.The guys are doing a nice job of keeping the area clean along with getting the job done quickly. It is reassuring knowing that there is a new roof up there, leak free. Grounds look good, welcome sign has been changed frequently, speed limit box has moved around the complex. Things are shaping up!
The speed box was a great idea considering that we can't install speed bumps. It has defiantly curbed the speeding issue.
The next thing we have to work on, as jhillary wrote, is the kids loitering in lots and sides of the road. In my area it is not bad, but driving through the complex I see children playing in the parking areas and kids with nothing to do.
Other than that the pool has been very refreshing and everything else seems to be quiet.
What happened to the speed box? It would have been nice to see it for more than 4-5 days. Why did they take it out so soon?
I've noticed a trend over the past 2-3 weeks. Parking spaces are begining to get out of hand again. I went to park in my lot and there were no spaces available. I looked for stickers in windows, 1/2 didn't have one. Anyone know the name of the towing co. we use? They are not doing their job properly again.
A few years back I remember they power washed the sides of the buildings. I wanted to know if they still do that? I am starting to get an accumulation of green mold by my gutter that is beginning to look very unattractive and growing each time it rains. Help.
one more question
It may have been asked before but here goes. Who is in charge of fixing the electrical outlet outside? Condo or me?
This morning I was speaking to my neighbors and they were complaining about the maintenance fees. I own 4 condos in a few separate locations, I rent 2 of the 4. I just want to make a few comments about the additional money we must put out of our pockets each month for condo fees and the importance of long-term preventive maintenance.
The "A" word, ASSESSMENT, causes as much financial stress to most condo owners as an audit. Most condo associations lack the self discipline to put sufficient money aside (in the form of reserves) for future repairs and maintenance. Apart from roof repairs or replacement, the exterior of a typical condominium building requires the largest and sometimes the most frequent assessments over the entire life of the structure. In fact, the cost of maintenance and repair of a building's exterior during its useful life is equal to, and in some cases greater than, the original cost of construction. This assumes that all aspects of the building fabric are kept in a reasonable condition for an average period of 35 years. This cost is necessary in order to maintain the value of your property and protect your investment.
For example, if you own a condominium, then chances are you own a car. Everyone knows that a car is a lousy investment, but you have to maintain it regularly to keep it in good running condition. And as much as you don't like it, you don't really question the cost of maintenance which, statistics show, can cost as much as two to three times the original purchase price, assuming you bought it new and kept it for approximately five years! Yet you know that all the time it is decreasing in value! A condominium is one of the greatest property investments you can make, if you own one, why wouldn't you want to spend money on maintaining it if you knew that it would increase its value? Well, I'll tell you why. Because many condominium owners just do not believe that:
A) Major maintenance and repair are absolutely necessary, and
B) If "A" is true, then any money spent on major repairs will result in a good return on their investment.
We live in an environment where seasonal elements factor in considering the protection of the exterior of their building. Most people think waterproofing is about stopping leaks. Well, of course it is, but there is much more to it than that. Actually, leaks are fairly easy to detect and can be stopped and prevented from recurring fairly easily and inexpensively. What most owners don't understand, through no fault of their own, is that the primary purpose of waterproofing is to prevent deterioration of the exposed areas of the building fabric, especially the walls, walkways and balconies. These portions of the structure have to be protected from moisture intrusion to provide them with enough longevity to maximize their useful life. Again, using the car analogy, a schedule of regular service intervals will provide your vehicle with a longer useful life. And just like a car, various parts of a building require servicing at varying degrees of intervals. For example, stucco, concrete, brick and timber all require different treatments because they have different physical properties and their life-spans are not the same.
It is not just a question of "sealing" or "painting" the building. Unfortunately it is a lot more complicated than that. To an untrained eye, the symptoms of deterioration are not always obvious, or even visible, until the problem reaches a more serious level. The best examples of this are the deterioration of concrete and the rotting of concealed timber, both of which are a sort of hidden cancer. If only buildings could reveal their own pain we wouldn't have to wait until they were really sick and have to resort to surgery!
When you put it like that I can see why we pay the amount we do in fees. If you owned a house not only would you be paying for the material needed for the upkeep but also the labor it takes for the installation.
But
I don’t totally agree with everything you are saying. The 35 year number, does it assume the same owner is living in the same residence for the entire time? For the 35 year time frame, is a specific amount put aside each month for maintenance or just when something happens? If you think about it, a homeowner may not have a problem with their homes for years. Whatever problems happen are because of that resident not the 2000 that live here. If my neighbor destroys something, we all pay for it!
My thoughts on labor
Rather than pay someone to mow the lawn, for 3 months of condo fees, I can own my own sit down mower. Another month or 2 of fees I can buy a snow blower. My point is that 90% of the money we pay into the system goes towards paying for the labor.
Solution would be to contract cheaper companies that outperform the current.
Difficult, no.
Labor intensive, yes.
The latter is most likely the reason why we have the issues we do with the landscaping and snow removal company. Now the towing company is even suspect.
Board members,
The true way to build equity is to adopt a long-term preventive maintenance plan that will provide not only you, but also the current and future owners with peace of mind in the knowledge that there will be no surprises. This alone will be worth it's weight in gold when we have to sell or rent. Lets face it, if the place wasn't maintained as it is up to this point, chop about 30% off the appraisal value of each home. Not to say things are not run well, but it is obvious we can be doing better.
All exterior deterioration is a result of one or more factors, but only one can we do anything about.
Poor design, Lack of quality control during construction,the location with regard to weather and climate,the inevitable aging of materials and
deferred preventive maintenance. Like they say if is going to happen it will no matter how well we maintain the structures. Fees are just something we have to live with if we want the property manicured the way it has been.
The deterioration is only partly due to weather. The other 3/4 is because of neglegance already discussed in prior posts. Now that the cat is out of the bag, we have to now look to management for an effective solution. No one likes the boat to be rocked like it has been on this forum. Lets put all B.S. aside and call a spade a spade. MANAGEMENT IS NOT DOING AN EFFECTIVE ENOUGH JOB with certain aspects of maintaining our community. Agreeing with the prior post, its not everything, its just some of the larger more obvious day to day functions.
Anonymous said
"Poor design, Lack of quality control during construction,the location with regard to weather and climate,the inevitable aging of materials and
deferred preventive maintenance."
_____________________________________
The word "deferred" is a nice way of saying inadequate or insufficient. FYI, Home owners are conditioned to believe that buildings last for 50 to 100 years or more, by today's standards is just not true. In fact, the newer the condominium, the more likely it is to have problems! Condominiums and townhouses are built to minimal base standards and minimal tolerances. Nearly all condos are speculatively built by developers using the minimum design/build process. All the more reason why maintenance is important to us and money should be monitored more closely and better well spent. Don't patch the problem fix it!
Hi Whispering Hills,
Quick observation:
I would like to point out recent posts and the format they are beginning to adopt.
Rather than post anonymously, place the subject of the memo in the name box if you choose not to use an identity (we still encourage signing each post). This procedure will make it easier to comment and distinguish posts from each other.
Thank You All,
The Boss
Question??
What measures are currently in place for dealing with long-term preventive maintenance? Fences destroyed by landscapers are a relatively small problem when you look at the big picture. When you talk structural damage, it’s a whole new ballgame. I have had my roof leak in the past, who knows what damage it caused. By the time I found behind my bedroom furniture it was too late, the damage had already been done. Mold, rot and damaged furniture. The leak caused more damage than it should have and I still can’t believe it wasn’t found sooner. It was no crack, it was a rotted hole. This brings us back to the question of inspection and detail. Even if the roof was inspected, it was never detected.
I have no comment about my condo, just traffic. I commute and its horrible. The construction is making things a mess! It's not just here its the whole area. What else are they planning on doing? The amount of work they are doing seems like a whole lot of trouble for a stinkin lowes!
Where is management? It's been a while since I've been here, I went back a few posts, they are non existent. Pathetic! They were speaking and answering questions here and stopped. Thats part of the problem, residents speak and no one listens. People that don't want to deal with you jackasses have questions that are never answered.
If you want cooperation from the management, you are living in the wrong place. Arrogant losers elected to their position because no one else wants it. Don't break a nail doing any more work than you are suppose to! Very, Very un-resourceful, pompous and absolutely the most unorganized bunch I have ever seen! Sad excuse for board members, get off your high horse and do something interactive with the community rather than pick your nose! You guys are all loafs who play the smoke and mirror game, making your jobs seem so difficult. From the results that you all produce, its a wonder how this place even functions. A bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.
preventive maintenance,
You’re absolutely right. The answer is to plan ahead by developing a long-term maintenance plan. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Management can start by expanding on our capital reserve by breaking down the building elements and comparing their remaining lives with their useful lives. If we do not have this information available, then we can hire a consultant who specializes in this field such as an architect or an engineer, or at the very least talk to some contractors. The time taken in getting this kind of valuable advice will save the complex hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run. Just ask some of the associations who have been through enormous assessments and wish they had addressed this issue years ago.
Electrical Outlet,
Your outside outlet if for your use. It is not common property. Thus you are responsible for repairs.
Green Mold,
Condo 2 will do power washing next year. I cannot answer for the others. The money being spent on roofs limited us on what we could do this year. The roofs are done so next year should allow us to handle deferred work.
Topic: Management Rant
We are only as good as the available resources, time and money. My follow board members are too busy with jobs and family to do more than attend meetings. So the time resource is limited to my available time. I have a full-time job that demands about 48 hours a week.
It is obvious that the volunteer model no longers works. When condo living was a life-style there was an abundance empty-nesters, retirees and single adults and thus an abundance of free labor. Now that condos are an economic necessity. More and more two worker families are choosing condos as homes. Result, much less free labor.
A solution is coming. At the very least, Condo 2 will have a management company. I believe minds are changing with the HOA. There are too few voluteers to help manage a complex this large. More workers are needed so we will spend money to get this resource.
How to pay for it?
If you think our condo fees are high take a survey. I am betting they are the lowest for the services that are offered. Secondly, if you bought a single home and paid for everything instead of doing it yourself, I will bet you will spend more than what you pay.
Topic: Fences
Now I am ticked off. Everybody ranted and ranted about protecting fences from string trimmers. I spent hours researching and had samples sent by suppliers. A solution was found that I like and it was install at 2819. I asked people to look and post comments. Not a damn thing.
Topic: My Beef
If you think that the solution to our problems is to have 685 owners complain and only 5 owners that do all the work, then you are living in a dream world.
This blog has only has only given me more work. It has not contributed any solutions. It has not made this job any easier. In fact I should be outside inspecting the buildings I did not do last weekend instead of posting. If I had all that time spent complaining.
The reality is you need me and people like me more than I need you.
I am done with this waste of time. Happy complaining. When everybody is ready to truly contribute, let me know.
Jeff Jones
Thats right there are more families living here with more than one person working. Even more reason why a busy person like me uses this blog. Not griping just venting. I complained about the fence posts and have not had a chance to look at the sleeve yet.
On the contrary, IMO much good has come out of this blog. the glass half empty attitude stinks!
"The reality is you need me and people like me more than I need you."
This is terrible coming from a board member. Your bad attitude is disheartening.
Hi Whispering Hills,
A few comments...
Reading Jeff Jones post was very enlightening. It indirectly stresses the importance of teamwork and what happens when all cylinders are not firing correctly. The key to a successful Blog environment is to have people share in their concerns, ideas and solutions but most importantly help each other succeed and better our quality of life. Obviously we need a degree of teamwork in order to assure that all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
My thoughts:
We ALL Need To Function And Think Of Ourselves More As A Team!
In my career, success has been achieved a number of ways but none of it would have been possible if it had not been for a team effort. I learned that the most important detail for any project, community, forum, or business is to develop a good team. Team is a tricky word. Team is not just about putting few people together and declaring them a union. Team is bunch of individual sharing common goals, visions and working "together" to achieve that goal. Together is an important aspect of a team. Everyone should work with everyone else; it's about rising above the personal differences and work towards the common goal, with COLLECTIVE efforts.
Evident on our blog, there are clear examples of segregation between HOA, Board, and Residents. In my professional experience, the success of a team hinges on how relations are between the team members. A team which shares good relations with each other invariably overcomes all hindrances which can destroy a project before it even begins. I still remember the most proficient team I have worked with, my partner was a very good friend of mine. I discovered contrary to belief that when you are close friends with your teammates, you tend to communicate more freely and more frequently. (This helps greatly as they understand when you can't put in 100% into the project all the time). Needless to say, the end result was us pulling off the project with minimal resources and ahead of schedule. My point…there were hardly any moments when we doubted each other's commitment towards the team.
No matter how you slice and dice it, the word team is all about, working for each other, working with each other and communication. I remember how easy it was to produce, we never had to correspond regarding the importance or the criticality of the project. There was never a lack of efforts from either side. This kind of understanding takes time to build; you don't always have the choice of working with your friends. A true professional is seasoned to work with all kind of teams and overcome any obstacle by rationalizing a solution before its implementation. We all need to be more professional in the way we think!
What to do when you don't get a team that has this kind of team bonding?
I think each and every Community Member, HOA member, Board Member and Blog Member needs to take up the responsibility of building up a team atmosphere where everyone can communicate with each other as a team. Each one of us needs to take the initiative and build relationships and iron out the rough edges amongst each other. Our goal should be to build an environment where it's fun to participate and people respect one other. It's not an easy task and takes a lot of time but it's worth investing. It’s better to spend time building relations with teammates than spending time cursing the lack of team spirit.
As human beings we tend be subjective. We tend to like some people better than others and since we spend a lot of time working we want to work around people we like. You have two choices either you work with people who you like or start liking the people who you work with, later is a challenge worth taking. If we all contribute as a team to the entire effort (HOA, Board, Blog) we can communally work out solutions and hurdle each obstacle, one at a time!
Thank You All For Your Support!
The Boss
jones,
You should be embarrassed in the way you carry yourself. You are a baby! I think it is a slap in the face the way you respond to our answers. You are an arrogant complainer who needs to get a grip on reality!
You complain about your job constantly. It is your duty, no one twisted your arm to become a board member. I have point out things in the past are mishandled due to negligence. I take money out of my pocket each month for maintenance, not destruction. I want what I pay for, $5000.00 a year for you bozos to speak to us the way you do. Very disrespectful.
Words of advice to fellow residents, don’t go to meetings, this is the type of atmosphere you will encounter. Abrasive, thick headed management with them wagging their chins, listening to only themselves.
jones, learn how to deal with people, the way you go about things is wrong. You are a joke!
Grow up!
good post boss, you should have run for board. This is the type thinking we need to get things done here.
Electrical Outlet
Thank You for the answer.
The sleeve looks like it will do the job well. Question is how costly is it? Will all residents get this or just condo 2? What about longevity?
Satellite dishes are an eyesore and should be ban. These things hang on the fences and look like poop. People with pets, pleas curb your animals. Dogs are not the only problem, cats are also contributing. Cats we cant really do anything about but dogs should be picked up after out of respect for other homeowners.
A pet is a pet. Owners should be required to pick up after them as well. Cats are domesticated animals and as such should not be allowed to roam free to defacate in the flowerbeds, tear bark from the trees and otherwise produce that lovely urine smell after it rains! REAL pet lovers would not allow that.
The last post has it right. The dog curbing isn't a problem by me it is the cats. The smell of cat urin permeates my entire house when the ground is wet. Most of the cats I see are not marked with tags, who knows if someone even owns them, they could be wild. The only humane solution I know of is spray that repels them.
If we did incorporate a management company to run the place it would be the best thing to ever happen to Whispering Hills. The boards that are currently running our complex are volunteers. This is the exactly what we are getting, 2nd rate management! As far as the threat about raising common charges, it's obviously just that, a threat. The amount of money we would save addressing the negligence alone would more than cover the cost ten fold.
One more thing I would like to point out is the piss poor attitude by board member Jones.
Reading his comment reinforces the point I'm making. This guy runs for board, complains constantly about his job and how tough it is. It's not just him it's all of them. They all have families and jobs and this complex is very large, we need someone to run this place full time. The way it's going now we can't gain traction. As homeowners we are spinning our wheels and paying more into a flawed system that is beginning to resemble the movie Money Pit! All this money going toward damages, negligence and who knows where is sickening. The protective sleeve that was installed is a good idea. It will save a lot of money on fence repair, again, it’s placing a band aid on a 6 inch cut that requires stitches.
What has changed here over the past 12 years I have lived here? Board attitude negative, grounds deteriorating, lack of involvement on all fronts, destruction, loitering, lack of action, finger pointing, sheer laziness, but the pool looks great.
Peeved off about lot parking. I was under the assumption that we were only issued 2 parking permits per residence. I came home last night, pouring rain, no spot. Whats up with the towing company? They were in here doing their job for the first 2 months we brought them in. They are non existant. This sucks! We are having the same problem with idots that are lazy and don't want to walk from the street.
DO YOUR JOB HOA AND CALL THE TOWTRUCK IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they cant do the job get someone who can. Now I see why people are pissed. Everything here done is half ass!
Same thing here in 3600's. The parking is getting out of hand again. Having guests park in the lot is a slap in the face, it shows no respect for other neighbors.
It's nice to see that things are being attended to. It makes me happy as a resident to know that the staff is listening and paying more attention to detail. I've noticed that the sign has been changed quite frequently and that the loitering has been at a minimum.
As far as the fence dressing, I took a look at it and think it will be a great way to prevent damage and should save us a good amount of money in the future.
Thank you for listening.
K
Anyone know why they stopped working on condo 4 roofing project? I would think they want to finish before winter. Also, are we getting new fences? The current ones are looking pretty bad.
The parking situation has long been a problem in Whispering Hills. It has been for so long that most of us can't remember a time that there was no parking problem. During the summer, the problem has only been exacerbated.
It's not uncommon to find cars out there all night without being towed. Even the pavement just past the marked spots can often be found to have an illegally parked car. Quite frankly, I think the situation is ridiculous. Last year, HOA issued new permits, it did nothing to solve the underlying problem. It only shows poor foresight on the part of WH.
It's high time to make the situation right. It's time for serious action to end the parking problem.
Now, let it not be said that we the residents are not offering solutions.
I offer the following suggestion
Spray paint each space with a number. That number gets assigned to that unit. By doing this, it will make residents more responsible and concerned if someone parks in their space. Any additional spots leftover would be general resident parking, permit only. We pay for the lot maintenance, we should be at the very least own the right to a space. Every time I see parking becoming an issue, I wonder why this has never been implemented. It’s a simple solution to a long term problem!
Jim
Jim,
As a 20-year resident, I can appreciate your frustration with the parking arrangements and agree that the rules need to be enforced consistenty. However, I can tell you that if there was a "simple solution", there would be no current problem. Assignment of spaces was tried in the past--then it became an issue of "entitlement", with those having one car garages laying claim to their right to have 2 spots (if the 2-car garages were getting one spot). In effect, it was thought the 2-car garages were being penalized. Then it was complaints about the location of the spot (if it wasn't directly adjacent to the residence).
The real problem: your "neighbors". You know--the ones that have built illegal rooms in their garages, displacing their cars. And the ones who rotate their vehicles on a daily basis to ensure that ALWAYS have a space 365 days a year. Those cars parked illegally in unmarked spots? That's your neighbor who doesn't want to walk 20 extra steps to his front door. Add all that to the clogging of additional space by commercial vehicles and you've got real problems(especially in mid-Nov).
Unfortunately, when Klar built this place, he was more concerned with packing as many residences ($$)in here as he could--not adequate parking or the safety of the residents. Then, when the Town took the roads over, it was determined that they were not wide enough (fire trucks), hence parking on one side.
The real solution: This is a CONDO--and a densely populated one at that. Residents need to remain completely cognizant of what that means--and treat their neighbors--well, neighborly. Recognize that there are certain concessions one must make when you live in an environment with house rules that prevent your neighbor from parking that derelict vehicle on their front lawn.
I have a solution to the parking.
We should issue 1 space per unit. The spaces residents would get would be determined by placement of unit.The end units would get the end spaces, middle units, middle spaces etc.,etc. After demographics are considered an annual lottery for the appropriate spaces would occur. Basically ever year, just like parking permits are issued, the lottery would take place. Bottom line your space changes every year assuring everyone gets a fair chance at the front space.
1 space per unit, any additional are free game and designated accordingly in each demographic. Any resident can park in these spaces anytime, permit required as usual. Any opinions about my solution would be appreciated.
All this land you would think they would have built larger parking lots. I would assume they wanted to keep the integrity of the landscape in order. Good suggestion about the parking problem. I would be interested in knowing the parking space to unit ratio. From there we can start making suggestions.
To jeff jones,
Good job on digging up the resources to protect our fences. Same question as a prior post, what is the price per fence post?
What is wrong with the parents of these kids here?? There have been teenagers seen smoking pot at the parks. Do the parents not care what their children are doing? Or maybe they do not realize that they will be responsible if their little “angels” are caught!! Let’s really start watching for this homeowners!
Is it possible to set up a curfew at our parks to prevent unlawful activities occurring. If so, what can we do to start enforcing such curfews at these parks? We need to do something about vandalism around the complex and illegal activities occurring which mostly happen at night.
If you do that stuff, keep it in your homes!!!!!
This wouldn't be the first time kids have been caught "getting high" in the parks. A few years ago I remember the cops chasing them into the woods. Poof, they were gone. I guess thats the reason why the law isn't enforced the way it should be. The cops stop when they start running.
Does anyone here offer after school care? I have a 4 year old that will be attending preschool this fall and need someone to watch my child. I would prefer if there was other interaction with children within a group enviornment. I would be interested in meeting with whomever can provide these services to discuss further details. We can arrange to privatly exchange information rather than post on the blog.
Thank you,
Jane
Whoever kids are throwing rocks down by the park and clubhouse 2 are looking for trouble. Control your little brats. There is a little blond boy and a dark headed kid about 6 years old. Little punks not to mention idiot parents that don't give a crap!!!!!!! The blond kid is an arrogant little ass. Cursing and disrespectful. I'm in an uproar and extremely offended by these little bast@#ds attitudes!!
I think a block sale would be a great idea for the community this fall. We can rent tables and hold the sale in both whispering hills parking lots. During the event, refreshments and food can be sold. Maybe even incorporate a few activities or raffles into the mix.
I'm pointing a finger at a homeowner in whispering hills.
A resident pulled up over by the recycle bins and dumped off a burgundy color couch this past weekend. I couldn't believe it! The gentleman was driving a white ford explorer. He threw our some other junk with it.
I'd like to respond to the August postings about hiring a Third Party Property Management Company.
I think it is necessary to look into this. I agree that the volunteer staffed Board is grossly inadequate when it comes to managing a property the size of WH.
In addition to ongoing maintenance of the property (which is uneven at best), they could also be engaged to keep the Board in check by ensuring that both open and closed board only meetings are held at the intervals required by the by-laws as well as budgets being available for viewing and distribution of financials (which from what I can ascertain is not done).
The manner in which this property is managed should be a priority as it effects quality of life and the value of our investments.
How can this be arranged? Who would review the candidates firms for the position?
COUCH THROWER
A GOOD RESIDENT WOULD HAVE TOLD THE PERSON HE IS VOILATING THE RULES AND WRITTEN DOWN HIS LICENSE PLATE NUMBER AND REPORTED HIM.
MAINTANANCE DEPARTMENT HERE SHOULD ALL BE FIRED. IF THEY DID SOME WORK IT WOULD BE GREAT. JUST GO UP TO CLUB HOUSE 2 IN THE MORNING THE START AT 8AM AND GO TO WORK AT 9AM THEN TAKE A BREAK AT 10AM GO TO LUNCH AT 12 NOON AND TAKE A BREAK AT 2PM AND ARE SITTING DOWN IN THE MAINTANACE AREA AT 3PM WAITING TO 4PM TO GO HOME. WE SHOULD ALL RETIRE AND GET A JOB WORKING FOR THE MAINTANCE DEPARTMENT AT WHISPERING HILLS.
What does it matter if you go up to the offender or not, everything down there is on camera anyway. Trust me, they will be fined. You did the right thing by not confronting the resident. Next thing you know you are fist fighting, ore even worse.
Thanks Couch
Did not know there was cameras in Whispring Hills. How about BiG Brohter. Un marked police are here too. Why don't they work with Wishering Hills to help us!
Stop them and report them. Need comunity help. NO
The whole conflict with hiring a property manager is the cost effectiveness & productivity issue. Any residential or commercial property must be taken care of from both a physical and a tenant-relations standpoint, and that is what a property manager does. He maintains and upgrades facilities while acting as liaison between the owner of the property and tenants. In many cases, the property manager has the responsibility for attracting tenants to the property as well. Since most property managers are in charge of a number of properties at any time, the job can involve frantic work, unusual hours, and extremely difficult schedule coordination. With this in mind, does it really pay to incorporate a management system? In my opinion, it wouldn't make a difference either way. As the old adage goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!
Its a very nice property and very well kept. parking is not too bad i've seen a lot worse. not much crime but i've heard a couple of incidence lately. they should really consider something else for safety patrol. it can get a little noisy at times but most of the time its very quiet.the hoa staff is very nice and generous. Maintenance is good. there is one drawback, work orders, they take forever to fill.
overall this is a great property. the best i've seen. i would defiantly recommend this property to anyone looking for a quiet, well behaved residents, and kept up units.
I agree, this is a great place to live. Aside of a few problems you would encounter in any community. If the only issues are with the landscapers, parking, and a few other things that seem to be in the process of being addressed , we are doing better than 90% of other complexes that are run by evil management companies. I have been told nightmares about how some of these places are run. Considering the size and the amount of people that live here. I think they are pretty organized and accommodate us as much as possible. All that said, I am proud to call this place my home!
Jeff Jones,
whats going on with the fence guard? Did anything ever materialize?
The damage is getting worse & worse on my fence. I could have rung the landscapers neck the other day when I saw the guy weed wacking.
Why don't you guys take an ax to the bottom of the fence. It's much quicker!
To respond to "Property Manager":
Maintenance is the issue at hand, not "tenant" relations. Common area maintenance is not being performed to any level of satisfaction, especially if you use any of the comments on this site as a barometer.
I don't know why you would view the matter as a "conflict". Hiring a property manager would be based on a contract of specific needs for the property. Cost effectiveness & productivity would be matters that are addressed BEFORE the contract is awarded and put into effect.
I agree that "Any residential or commercial property must be taken care of from both a physical and a tenant-relations standpoint, and that is what a property manager does." But most important to remember is that they are a hired contractor and would be subject to specific direction, presumably by the Board. Maintaining and upgrading facilities, as practical is ideal as would be some type of long range maintenance plan and related budget. Neither of these seems to be currently in effect, and if it is, it must be a big secret to the residents.
I do not agree that an integral job function would be to act as liaison between the owner of the property and tenants, since this is a condo complex and that clearly does not apply, and either does attracting tenants to the property. This is a condo complex -owners are responsible for marketing and selling their own units. A Property Manager would have absolutely no involvement in this process.
As for workload, we would be able to specify that this person is not in charge of a number of properties at any time, only ours. Given the size and overall scope of properly maintaining the complex, it would be impossible for anyone to manage the complex on a part time basis.
If you perceive that property management can involve frantic work, unusual hours, and extremely difficult schedule coordination, then you either have a poor reference point or know a property manager who is in the wrong line of work. I agree, and know first hand that Property Management is not a 9-5 job. Broken pipes, leaky roofs and other disasters do not occur during normal business hours, which brings us back to the point that the current set up cannot manage the property in an effective manner.
"With this in mind, does it really pay to incorporate a management system? In my opinion, it wouldn't make a difference either way. As the old adage goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!" This couldn't be further from the truth. The system isn't broken, it's DOA. There is a Board Member who never misses a week to install some "inspirational message" on the entrance marquee instead of doing something productive like perhaps a property inspection. We have decaying parking lots, graffitti that goes unaddressed, landscapers who seem to work (and I assume get paid) without any degree of accountability. Dealing with these types of issues are all major components of what a Property Manager does, and what currently is not being done.
In addition to the above, a Property Manager would be able to ensure that the Board acts in accordance with the By-Laws and rules established for the organization. Minutes would be kept and distributed as would be meeting notices, agendas and oh yes- the ever elusive financials and budgets that most residents here never seem to be able to view.
In closing, I would also like to add that to split up the Condos into different entities and allow them to manage themselves would undermine the ability to acquire a Class A Property Manager by using a complex the size of WH as an enticement.
Thank you.
People,
Don't let them fool you, the amount of money we would save using a management company would more than cover the cost of their services. This place is grossly neglected!!
Quite frankly, I think Whispering Hills board is a joke. It's been mentioned before here, someone is getting rich.
Don't waste your time trying to ask them questions, they answer with the same canned response and comnplain about how tough their job is.
I have been following this blog since April. Judging by what I have seen here, the system is significantly flawed with one of the weakest infrastructures I have ever seen a business posses.
Another thing, JEFF JONES IS AN IDIOT!
Asking this guy questions is like pulling teeth. If your lucky and get a response from the guy, he complains. DO NOT ASK HIM QUESTIONS ANYMORE, HE IS A LOSER!He is an arrogant ass which is directly reflective of the type of attitude you get all around here.
Great post kelly, all I can say is ditto!!!!!!
What really concerns me is the budget. Where does all the money go? They bring in fees in excess of 185k a month, something is defiantly wrong. I've been saying it from the beginning. I genuinely feel someone is dipping their hand into the cookie jar! All we do is turn a blind eye and pay the damn fees without asking questions where the money is going!
Thank you for the compliment.
I agree the Board system is flawed, but there is a lack of guidance and a lack of a neutral presence which I think would be both a help and a comfort to those who feel the system is "corrupted".
One of the biggest problems, is that the Board is volunteer driven and that level of involvement will effect the amount of time that is spent taking care of business.
The fact that budget publication and disclosure in addition to distribution of independently audited annual financial statement is something that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Not having access to this information is of great concern to many residents, and we have an absolute right to this information being unit owners. I have been here just about a year snd have yet to see hide nor hair of any financial statement.
I think that the credibility of this blog site is impaired by the amount of bashing that goes on. Smart board members would be best served to at least read through the comments and concerns and use them as a springboard to mend fences (no pun intended) in an obviously fractured relationship by targeting the major issues and make some visible strides in correcting deficiencies of greatest concern.
If all we do is tear others to pieces, we loose our ability to be viewed as giving constructive criticism. If that happens then this becomes nothing more than a site where disgruntled residents rant and rave and are never going to be satisfied.
I just want to address something.
Kelly said,
"I think that the credibility of this blog site is impaired by the amount of bashing that goes on. Smart board members would be best served to at least read through the comments and concerns and use them as a springboard to mend fences (no pun intended) in an obviously fractured relationship by targeting the major issues and make some visible strides in correcting deficiencies of greatest concern.
If all we do is tear others to pieces, we loose our ability to be viewed as giving constructive criticism. If that happens then this becomes nothing more than a site where disgruntled residents rant and rave and are never going to be satisfied."
If you have been following the blog, the reason why there are disgruntled residents is because nothing is being done here! As far as complaints, if they were addressed rather than shruged off, I think the atmosphere would be greatly different.
Reading every post, you will realize why things are the way they are because the board wants it that way. They are critisized for lack of leadership and action. It's a shame all we are getting is the short end of the stick and no answers. Look at the whole fence thing that occured, since there was no followup, the plug on the project was pulled. The feeling i got was that the board member who initially acted on the suggestion, broak his own hand patting himself on his back.
Disgusting!!!!!!!
It's to better the community and save us money and all this guy does is complain!
NOTHING IS BEING DONE HERE AND WE AS RESIDENTS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF IGNORANCE!
Anyone that makes a suggestion, its not taken seriously because they want you to attend a meeting (we know how that goes). There have been some extraordinary suggestion and solutions brought up and people willing to volunteer, its board members obligation to harness the suggestions and address concerns of all residents.If they can't, get off the board!!
It is what it is, we have to make the best of the situation.Let's move forward and work together in a productive manner rather than hinder the process by making negative comments. I for one, think this blog is an incredible resource to voice my opinion, concerns, and suggestions. I will continue to do so along with many others!
As far as the budget and number crunching, it's been brought up before to Mr Jones and never addressed. As a matter of fact, there has also been talk of corruption.
There will always be financial uncertainty until this matter is addressed.
My opinion there should be a probe into where the money is spent, not being educated with financial info is leaving us open to a corrupt system.
My interpretation, condo board presidents, WH complex brass, a contractor and a forth person could be purposely inflating bids to a board, get them approved, then would have the contractor kick back some of the money. One of may examples of what could be happening here. This could include maintenance, snow removal, landscaping, etc. Basically anything we are paying for with our maintenance fees.
I'm curious and concerned, they should crack open the books and visually show residents where the cash is going. I would love to see the explanation of the state's condo laws because I smell something fishy here.
This is a must read for anyone worried about corruption. Trust me, it happens more often than you think in condo land!
http://www.ccfj.net/condograndvistastop.html
It scares the hell out of me how easy it would be to steal, especially in a large place like this. How many residents here really know where the cash is going? My bet, a fraction.
M
Crazy article, it makes you think.
to respond to K:
I did read all the postings. Complaining is one thing. Calling people names is another. That is my point. I understand the frustrations, and believe me, I do not work as hard as I do to line somone else's pockets. And I do not contribute to this blog merely to spin my wheels.
Payoffs and kickbacks are unfortunately almost part of the system in real estate and only those with integrity and a true desire to rise above that type of scenario will be able to work without partaking. I think part of the problem also is people looking to take the easy way out (by using the same contractors over and over).
I agree that this site is an incredible resourse. There is a comfort to know that we are not alone in our concerns. Perhaps it can be a springboard for real action instead of a site where people complain and expect someone else to do the dirty work.
I think we should all look into a few things. One item specifically would be to identify exactly where the Board is in violation of procedure and see what action can be taken against the Board.
Board Members are not exempt from legal action if there is true corruption.
How many people on this site would be willing to really act and get involved if the Board were to be called to the carpet? How involved would you be willing to be and to commit to, if it meant a significant change?
By-laws can be re-written (term limits?), Oversite committes (so to speak) and such could be imposed - but it takes people wanting to be involved.
We should start an Anti-Board Board.
I have been away for a bit...needed to take a break from this anarchy !
I still stand behing my belief:
Wouls you allow someone with NO EXPERIENCE in restaurant managemenr run you restaurant? Would you allow someone who wasn't a certified marriage counselor council you? Would you let a supermarket produce manager do a prostate exam on you? WELL THEN WHY ARE WE ALLOWING COMMON CITIZENS RUN OUR, OUR, OUR MILLION DOLLAR ORGANIZATION CALLED WHISPERING HILLS LLC ?
The amount of money saved and peace of mind we ALL would get from a certified condo management company is priceless.
Think about it....you letting a garbage man teach your daughters 7th grade math class....not me.
Hear Hear David,
The biggest issue with hiring a management company is cost effectiveness. The bottom line, is hiring a management company going to be financially beneficial or is our common charges going to go thorough the roof? We already know the place will be better managed with a professional company. I just don't want the increase in common charges.
Allowing the residents to run this place has worked up to this point. I don't agree with the way things are run and by doing business in this manner is totally opening us up to things I'd rather not go into for fear of offending someone (we have to watch what we say, we have some sensitive people here.
As mentioned in a prior posts, we know we live in a large complex. With the amount of residents and the amount of money thrown into the system, it is inconceivable that we are not able to get a breakdown of EXACTLY where each dime is going.(Each month we blindly pay the "man" his fee, not asking a single question about it)
Anyone seen the books lately...."no"....ever?
Attention!
A motion to request that we the residents launch a private audit on our behalf against Whispering Hills.
It would help if we had a few residents that are proficient in law and accounting lend a hand to the probe.
I want them to crack their books open and prove my suspicions wrong.
M&M
October 01, 2007
Actually, we can expect to see where every dime is spent. I work for a Real Estate company. The individual properties we manage are all owned by separate LLCs and each year, we are independently audited to verify how the money is being spent. That is how it is done. it's called ACCOUNTABILITY. And, the financial statements are DISTRIBUTED (imagine that!!).
I second the motion for an independent audit. I live in Condo III and we were just sent notices about a $20 increase set to start this January, due to "needed paving repairs". Why was this not budgeted? Are we to assume that 3 bids were received and reviewed and the party awarded the job is the lowest (or more important, competent and not related to anyone on the Board?).
These are the types of concerns we have at present and would hopefully be eliminated by a third party management company. At the very least we would be able to see the documentation behind these projects, and not have this cloud of suspicion hanging over every dollar spent.
As for fees paid to the Management Company, the company I work for collects a percentage of the income collected each month (common charges). Additional fees are paid to manage larger projects at the properties (5% fee for projects in excess of $50,000.00). Aside from the professional knowledge, we would also benefit from an experienced company versed in dealing with common problems that are faced in the day to day operations of a complex the size of WH.
There is too much at stake with the amount of revenue collected at this property. There is no place in business for worrying about people's feelings being hurt. No offence, but if somone is dipping their hand in the till, I could really give a damn about hurting their feelings. I work too hard for my money (as I am sure we all can agree), and I resent anyone getting a free ride.
How do we proceed?
How about an audit committee?
Some HOAs are required to have a "review" done each financial year. Some documents require an audit.
Some qiestions we can ask the board pertaining to the audit (a review is a lower standard than an audit. We want an AUDIT):
Question: If I as a Board member or the Board as a whole would like to have an audit done instead of the standard year end financial review, how would we actually go about this?
Question: Do we simply ask the board to request the CPA to expand the review to an audit?
Question: Do we ask the CPA ourselves and not go through the Manager?
Question: Do we hire someone outside of the loop?
Question: Who will verify balances?
I think that an audit is in order, given the time that has elapsed since anyone has seen financials. After the audit is conducted and a financial report of the findings has been issued, we can then discuss the annual review process and also decide on the frequency of audits going forward.
I think an independent third party would be best to perform this audit. There are plenty of companies we can interview for the audit, which I assume the fee would be based on the depth and deatil we are looking for in this audit. It would be the safest, and most objective way to bring the information we all seek out into the open.
We should consult the by-laws to determine if there is a procedure to follow.
m&m....
It HASN'T worked. If it WAS working we wouldn't be having so many issues, so many angry people, AND SO MANY INCREASES !!!
It's NOT working well.
I can GTD you we would not have as many increases and issues if we had a professional condo company running things.
I have actually KNOWN people that have had there HOA fees go DOWN.
Believe that !
You think you guys have it bad, I live in condo IV. My fees are $310.00 a month because of a roofing project that we never accounted for in our budget. Good job guys, nice planning. Who's job is it to secure funds as they are being paid to hoa for projects like this? The additional $ assessed is killing me month to month.
Another question? Do they keep minuets for each meeting? By law I think they have to.
Condo IV-
I know what you mean- $20 here, $20 there - it all adds up. Isn't the roof work supposed to be an assessment, not a permanent increase? The roof work was done in my section just before we purchased and I was told that the assessment ($35 I think) was just lifed an month or two prior.
David is correct- proper management should be cost effective and we should be looking at maintaining present fees, if not a reduction.
If we are audited and have a competent accounting process in place, we should be looking at depreciation schedules for the common area and ways to decrease our proportionate share of the property taxes.
Common areas insurance coverage should be aggressively and competively bid as well as projects.
A Property Management firm would also be able to put together a proper budget that accounts for capital projects and the cost to execute them. Being pro-active and properly forecasting expenditures should minimize, if not eliminate unplanned increases to the residents.
I believe that not only are minutes supposed to be recorded, we should be able to review them when we want to.
I need to read the by-laws (as we all should). Knowledge is power.
Someone is going to have to organize a letter to the board to request an internal private audit. The questions above are a great place to start.
Just sending a letter is futile. HOA will choose to ignore the letter unless someone presents it to the board in their meeting format. (Funny how I've sent letters in the past directly to the HOA to hear nothing after). My feeling, they throw it aside because no one is watching. If it presented to the board "in front of the community" they will have to take it seriously.
Who will organize the letter & who will present it?
Any lawyers or accountants that can give input, please don't hesitate.
m&m
October 1, 2007
I believe these are the condo laws for NY state. Someone more educated in reading this lingo might want to skim the document and give an opinion.
The link is
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcode.pl?&type=srchres&case=/data/ny/code/claws/99/12.htm&law=99&art=12&frame=right2
This is an excellent start!
I think we first need to read the by-laws and site chapter and verse where we can call out the Board's failure to comply with their own rules and our right to view the financial information.
An open community meeting is one way to confront the Board, but I do believe that the New York Secretary of State is the governing entity in cases such as these so perhaps a certified letter, ccing the NY Secretary of State or at the very least, advising the Board that if they fail to respond, we will bring the matter to the S of S.
FYI
They will not like you examining financial, it's a proven fact. Jeff Jones lost his mind last time this was brought to the communities attention. To his discredit, a defensive approach was taken rather than an explanation. All that needs to be produced are the facts.
As Kelly mentioned, this is a great start. We need answers, not excuses or posturing.
He can loose whatever he wants, the more defensive he (or the rest of them) gets, the more determined we need to be and the further we will want to dig.
This is an extremely serious issue. We need to stick together and see this through to the end. If you read the article from the link posted on September 27 about Grand Vista complex, you will see how an unchecked situation can grow completely out of control and jeopardize everyone in the complex's investments.
As an ex-banker this is what I know. Do not confuse financial statements with audit statements. It should not take legal council for them to open their books. By law, they must file a consolidated financial statement that is on file for the public to view. On this statement there are bottom line numbers, nothing specific. What an audit will do is provide additional information where we can pinpoint spending and really see in black and white what we are up against. A prospectus of financial events would be absolutely ideal.
We do receive the financial statement every year via mail. What we need is detailed specifics as I mentioned above.
I have been here a year and have yet to see any type of financial statement. Other residents claim non-receipt as well, in addition to hitting a brick wall when making direct inquiries.
There are serious allegations of financial impropriety such as certain individuals receiving salaries and other money changing hands. Using a modest monthly maintenance fee ($240) as a reference point, it is estimated that almost 2 million dollars a year in common charges are collected. Using actual numbers (I am not aware of the fees the various Condo's pay and how many units are attributed to each grouping), but I will assume that amount is probably closer to 2.5 million per annum.
When was the last audit? Anyone can issue a financial statement but without back up documentation it's just a meaningless spreadsheet. If it's not certified by anyone, as far as I am concerned it's just meaningless propoganda being distributed by the same people dipping into the cookie jar.
There seems to be a great deal of concern regarding this issue and I think it warrants further investigation. If an audit is what it takes to either quell the concerns or bring improprieties to light, then so be it.
Good morning-
Did a little reading of the By-Laws last night and came across something interesting.
I live in Condo III, and we were just sent notices advising of a $20 increase beginning January, 2008- presumably for paving costs to the driveways. I do not doubt that the driveways are in serious need of repair, but why there is an increase being imposed when it should have been a budgeted maintenance item (the driveways did not deteriorate over night), I cannot tell you why this was not addressed before now.
I can however point out that pursuant to the By-Laws, section 5"Powers", paragraph 12, it states that the Board has the power:
"To make additions, alterations, or improvements to the common elements if the Community, the cost of which addition, alteration, or improvement does not exceed $5,000.00. The Board of Managers may make additions, alterations or improvements to the common elements costing in excess of $5,000.00 only with the approval of a majority of the Home Owners."
Intersting. Last time I checked, I was a Home Owner. And the last time I checked, I never received a single letter, notice or any other form of communication from the Condo III Board of Managers of their intent to perform this paving work (assuming that the need to increase my commons charges indicates the required work will ion fact cost more than $5,000.00), nor did I receive any type of voting slip or proxy form.
My interpretation is that the work is unauthorized, as is the increase. I intend to send notificationto the Board of Managers of this matter. The long and short of it is, per the By-Laws, they have no right to raise my monthly payments.
Assuming that all the Condo's are subject to the same rules and regs, you may wish to look into the validity of recent increases and assessments and the procedures that were followed that allowed them to raise your maintenance fees.
Kelly
Nice work.
Am I interpreting this right? Any maintenance that needs to be done with costs exceeding $5000.00 must approved by the residents as well as the board?
According to the cited document, I would assume the regulations would be intact for all condos in NY state.
So where are we at here? Are we going to talk about doing something or take action? This is preposterous. It is inconceivable that we don't save money for repairs and that my budget is tighter than ever because of it. Hi' by the way I also live in condo4. I did not sign up for a 40% increase in fees this year because of some damn roof!!!! Thank You! This is killing me. What am I paying for? I'm sick reading this. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how I deciphered it. It doesn't appear that the Board has oversight over the individual Condo Boards. A quorum of 51% is required in order to hold a voting meeting for the Condo in order to approve such work. That also holds for service contracts.
Granted, from a maintenance standpoint, it can be a nuisance to have to go to such lengths for every item over $5K, but it is what it is.
Condo IV - we are trying, but facts and specific instances of oversight are where we will be able to do something. Are you talking abgout increases, or assessments (an assessment is temporary, an increase is usually not). We all share your frustration - we work hard for our money and want only the best for WH, but not at the cost of overpaying for services or compensating and rewarding Board Members for their service.
Please look at your By-Laws for Condo IV (and 1 and II if anyone out there is reading this) and determine if protocol has been followed. If we start at the Condo Level, hopefully sh*t will roll uphill (pardon the expression) and we may be able to nip this cancer at the root.
Here are your board members.
Eugene Wetzel
Eugene Collins
Pat Morgan
Joan DeVoe
Jeff Jones
William Calloway
Bruce Green
Christine David-Collins
The conflict of interest is at best questionable with both Collins (married) on the board. Another, Jeff Jones both vice pres & pres of condo II. What are the laws here, if any at all? Inconsistencies? I would like to know more.
I am ready to copy this page & send it to all these people letting them know that we are very concerned and ignorant to their way of doing business. It is unfortunate it has to be them and us but again, this is business, not friendship. This place grosses millions a year, again I want to reiterate, it is a business, people get paid. How & what they get paid or compensated remain to be seen!
I'm thinking as an educated human, how easy would it be to abuse the system, especially with the length of leash we extend to them. As the old adage goes, maybe we gave them just enough to hang themselves.
If I were a member of the board or someone who has a common interest with Whispering Hills, be very cautious. I don't think this topic is going away until answers are produced.
You went too far for too long, enough is enough!
Mr. Cerebral-
You ROCK!
Ok, here's a few odds and ends from the By-Laws:
HOA By-Laws:
Article IX, section 1 "Elective Officers": Two of more offices may not be held by the same person.
Condo III By-Laws (I do not have a copy of Condo II's By-Laws) However:
Article III Board of Managers - Section 7:
Managers and officers, as such, shall receive no compensation for their service.
Article IV: Section 1 - Elective Officers
Two of more offices may not be held by the same person.
I am having a problem locating anything that prohibits 2 offices being held by joint home owners of the same unit.
I think we need to all meet in person and come up with a game plan. We can form our own committes and each group can plan their strategy based on the issue they wish to challenge.
If we act as a group, each with a seperate puropse, they can't ignore all of us.
We need more people to see what is being discussed here! The question is how do we reach every resident and inform them of the situation we are dealing with? I saw the initial flyer for this blog in the store and haven't seen them in a while.
To blog boss,
If you can set up more flyers to inform more residents of the site. Also, can we use this blog to start a petition or something?
Word of mouth about the matter will also conjure up curiosity. I'm sure if you tell your neighbor that the residents want to audit finances and make sure procedure is being followed correctly, they wouldn't be opposed.
Spread the word!
I think the meeting idea is a good one. We should arrange it before the next big board meeting, we can use their facility as a meeting place. Only thing is that we would have to clear it with them first.
Actually, it's OUR facility. We just need to reserve it, I suppose. Aren't the clubhouses for our use?
What would be best? At night during the week or on a weekend? I won't be available on a Saturday until 10/27, during the week, about 7PM is a possibility. Just need some dates that people will be willing to meet.
We can document our issues to address, break them down and decide how to proceed.
The conflict of interest is at best questionable with both Collins (married) on the board. Another, Jeff Jones both vice pres & pres of condo II. What are the laws here, if any at all? Inconsistencies? I would like to know more.
And we have a resident "COLLECTING" on work he does in his "OWN" community. I would be VERY interested in seeing the "OTHER TWO" bids on "EVERY" job he has performed.
Wait a minute, did someone just whisper "CORRUPTION" in my left ear?
I think someone did.
Who is collecting on what? Are the allegations against the board or the resident?
Can we please get some sort of interest pool over the next few days before we go any further with the audit plan? Anyone interested, indicate so with a simple yes. We will figure out the details as we go along. Lets see where we stand next Monday morning after others who read this digest what is being proposed.
I also emailed the blog on the posting of additional flyers. They said they were already on it, they will be up by the weekend.
Good Morning-
Good work on getting the flyers going, Mr. C. Hopefully we should get a few more people interested in challenging the system and contributing to our efforts.
We need to meet in person before anything is done to see how many people actually care enough to show up for a physical meeting.
From what I have heard, efforts in the past to group together for various reasons have fallen short because some people are all talk and would prefer to not get personally involved beyond spewing rhetoric.
I am in, schedule permitting. Name a time and place (one of the clubhouses should be fine).
I STRONGLY suggest that anyone reading this blog-site, especially if you wish to attend a meeting and get involved reads the By-Laws for both your particular condo as well as the HOA. Boring as hell, but if we are going to make demands, and more important, allegations of impropeiety, we need to be on point and know what we're talking about.
We all have rights here, we are all owners. The Board is not in an ivory tower (although it appears that they act to the contrary). They are supposed to have all the owners best interests in mind as well as the financial and physical health of the complex.
When indicating if you are willing to be involved, please specify which Condo you live in so we can try to get someone from each. Remember, there are 2 layers to these issues - there are Condo Boards and HOA Board.
Like I said, I am in (I live in Condo III)- just say when and where.
As I said, I'm defiantly interested in finding out more about this.
I'm live in IV
What are you people expecting to find? I find it offensive anyone would even suggest dishonesty. I'm a homeowner who has been paying into the system for 15 years, I refuse to believe this is happening.
Give me a break people!
I suppose ignorance is bliss. Offended? Why are you offended? Are you on the Board?
The lack of financial disclosure is a major problem and the ignored requests for the information is a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that there are members of the board holding down more than one office is a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that a member of the Board collects ANY type of fee is an impropriety and a violation of the By-Laws.
The fact that the Board cannot authorize any work over $5,000.00 without a quorum of the homeowners is a violation of the By-Laws. I resent that a proposed $20 month increase in my commons charge is based on unapproved work.
Need I go on?
If all you have to offer is discouragement and negative comments, then please maintain your silence. Complacency has allowed this situation to escalate to the this point.
Condo II and I am in depending on schedule.
I will be in Boston next week and Orland the following.
Kelly...don't respond to people who find it easy to make comments anonymously. Keyboard Courage runs rampant in this blog.
Say your name...then speak your mind...otherwise it falls on deaf ears and carrys NO weight.
Freedom of speech....just be respectful and stand behind what you say with your name.
Oh...and...
[quote]What are you people expecting to find? I find it offensive anyone would even suggest dishonesty. I'm a homeowner who has been paying into the system for 15 years, I refuse to believe this is happening.
Give me a break people![/quote]
If they never looked.... Nixon would have run his course for a full 8 years. It's our right to look.
True up, Dude!!
I'm expressing my opinion, this is still America right? No one is getting hostile, just questioning your motive.
Likewise. And that's OUR motive.
To:
I'm expressing my opinion, this is still America right? No one is getting hostile, just questioning your motive.
The problem is you are not expressing your opinion because your post carries no merit due to it's faceless nature and no one knows who YOU are?
Man up and tell us who you are or walk.
Everyone has the right to express what is on their mind(s). I do believe it carries more weight if you aren't afraid to say who you are....that I will never understand. Why would someone be hesitant to post who you are?
I for one are proud of my opinions and do not fear having one.
We're (pretty much) all adults.
Anyway...bottom line if it wasn't for anonymous posts we... Kelly, Jeff, and I would be talking to ourselves.
As more people get comfortable...they will come out of the woodwork.
Remember folks....we are trying to good here. We are trying to change a system that is fighting to be changed....fighting to be changed for (what we think) is a reason.
Good Morning-
Come on people! This site is riddled with complaints and accusations against the Board, and frustrations with how things are run, but when a meeting to put our heads together is suggested, suddenly, no one is out there.
So far, we have 3 people who have agreed to meet (myself, Dave and Mr. Cerebral - whoever that is), representing Condos 2,3 and 4. 3 people? Out of 670 units? We can't be the only disgruntled home owners in the complex.
We are all unit owners here and we have a right to the information we seek, and an explanation to the motives behind the Board's actions. They cannot retalliate against us, nor can anything we say or do be held against us.
Aside from the issues that have come to light on this site, our meeting, unlike the Board meetings, will be an opportunity for everyone to voice their opinion and have an opportunity to meet with other neightbors who share the same concerns and want something done about it or at the very least, receive a respectable, coherent and intellegent response from the Board regarding our concerns. If you plan to attend to defend the Board, then perhaps this may not be a meeting for you. We will be looking to strategize, not to fight another layer of Board BS. Being ignored or treated like second class residents will no longer be an option.
I know we're all very frustrated - to different degrees - but we really should try to be constructive, not destructive. We cannot allow ourselves to become a tool of the establishment we are looking to fight by fighting amongst ourselves. That would basically be doing their work for them.
"Come on people! This site is riddled with complaints and accusations against the Board, and frustrations with how things are run, but when a meeting to put our heads together is suggested, suddenly, no one is out there."
I'll tell you why people complain and don't take action. My personal opinion, it's a waste of time. The audit you guys want to do will take more than the 3 people interested. If you walked in there requesting to see books, you will be laughed out of the building. A group of 15-20 people need to organize and force the issue. The more people that get involved, the more likely someone will listen. Why are people all talk and no action? Speaking for myself, I work nights, I'm very busy. A solid plan needs to be outlined specifying the details to make it that much easier for everyone to get involved. From past experience, if its not laid out a-z , there will be lack of enthusiasm. Sad to day, probability the reason why we are in the predicament we are in.
Giving up my identity to the board, my name is Steve, aka Mr Cerebral. How do you want to go about doing this. I think you have a great idea with private meetings. Lets follow jims advice and formulate a plan that can be presented to the residents. Organization will be the key to education. The more residents that are educated, the louder our voice will be.
Well put Jim and I agree - it is sad.
I know where you are coming from, and agree this is time consuming. People can still contribute their efforts, even if they can't attend a meeting- perhaps a neighbor you know can attend and inform you of what happens.
As for being laughed out of the building, they can't do that (doens't meant that they won't) but they have to disclose, and if they don't, legal remedies can and will be pursued.
The Condo board is subject to the laws of NY State, and if it takes getting the state involved, so be it.
I for one work hard for my money and will not have selfish, unethical, unprofessional, inexperienced people piss it away by mismanaging my investment.
You are 100% correct in the fact that we are where we are because no one wants to take the initiative. Well I am here and I am willing and I have just enough knowledge about how a system like this is supposed to work to be a royal pain in the ass to the current enept Board.
I'm sure if a something was sent around to each resident explaining that we are interested in going the audit rout, more people would be inclined to do something. There are a fraction of residents that know this board exists. Just a small % compared to the 1000's that live here. We need to inform our neighbors by word of mouth this is happening, it is the most powerful advertisement. We are talking millions of dollars guys, we can't just let this be another one that slips through the cracks. It's lack of information and support that are killing the ideas here. I've seen some good and some bad, nothing materializes because of the small group of people this blog reaches. Short of sending around flyer's (like HOA)which would reach every resident, the next best thing would be vocal transmission of these ideas in conjunction with the blog.
Agreed. I think that should be the first thing we do (even if it only the 3 of us) is to start putting pen to paper and list the issues (backed up by snippets from the By-Laws that are being violated) and put together a flyer that we could hand deliver, and try to garner some interest that way.
Kelly & Jim
Why don't you just join your Boards. They you can get all the information you want and answers to all your questions.
Then you can answer to everyone on the Blog like you think Board members have too.
I bet your answer is your just have too much going on.
Lets go Kelly and Jim your boards need you.
Kelly & Jim
Why don't you just join your Boards. They you can get all the information you want and answers to all your questions.
Then you can answer to everyone on the Blog like you think Board members have too.
I bet your answer is your just have too much going on.
Lets go Kelly and Jim your boards need you.
??????And which scared kitty board member are you? Come out of the closet and stop hiding behind an anonymous post. What cowards.
Why would I run for an office here when I am thoroughly opposed to having residents run our complex?
Why don't you answer questions here Mr or Ms board member?
Are you intimidated by this blog? It sure seems so. Come out behind your anonymous identity and add constructive input not ridiculous suggestions.
Jim
Can someone tell me if I need some kind of pass to use the gym. New here, just moved in.
gym reminds me of something I suggested a decade ago . . . why not have a board member visit new home owners when they arrive, as a form of orientation? Provide the new home owner with the House Rules, additional info about recycling, parking, etc. and some encouragement to abide by the Condo regulations. Maybe add some coupons for local merchants and a few little inexpensive "trinkets". Or, schedule a new homeowner info session once a month for the new arrivals?
Well said dads8t2, your suggestion would definitely alleviate some of the inconsistencies. It would be nice to all be on the same page from day 1.
Dad,
Just curious, what was their response to your very valid suggestion? Why was this never implemented?
Initially, board members thought it a good idea . . . but unfortunately, my suggestion was coincidental with the siding/roofing project in Condo 1. All the focus went there. At the same meeting, I presented a bag of 250 roofing nails that had not been cleaned up from the driveway--and complained about a "near miss" (falling debris). The Board told me emphatically, that we should know we were living in a "construction zone" and I (!) should be more careful. With no support from the "peanut gallery", I left the nails and went home--the last meeting I ever attended.
Funny stuff!
I wrote a letter with photos and bills attached to the HOA in regard to the 8 flat tires me, the wife and daughter got while they were doing my roof. My neighbors dog got a nail in her paw. They did nothing, never responded, and ignored the situation. Not to mention that the ceiling in my neighbors house never leaked before the "NEW" roof and now it pours out of the light socket. They haven't responded yet and we are going on 6 weeks.
Similar thing with water happened to me a few years back, it wound up being a hole in my roof. To add insult to injury, it was leaking in from the gutter area too. You should push the issue like I did. Before you know it, weeks later you have a walls full of mold.
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